Scottish independence referendum 2014 -Yes or No?

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thomas81
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10 Sep 2012, 6:45 pm

Just wondered who among you would be in favour of Scottish independence when the referendum is held in 2 years. I as a Scotsman by birth am in support and if i were resident would be voting yes.

Heres a video to set the tone.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyx1xeZo_tk[/youtube]



JakobVirgil
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10 Sep 2012, 6:47 pm

I am for it.
I think English Independance would be a better Idea though.


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thomas81
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10 Sep 2012, 6:50 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
I am for it.
I think English Independance would be a better Idea though.


Um...wouldn't the 2 be mutually inclusive?



JakobVirgil
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10 Sep 2012, 6:52 pm

thomas81 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
I am for it.
I think English Independance would be a better Idea though.


Um...wouldn't the 2 be mutually inclusive?


Oh the scots would not need independence if the English left first.


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Jacoby
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10 Sep 2012, 6:56 pm

Whatever the people of vote for.



thomas81
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10 Sep 2012, 6:57 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
I am for it.
I think English Independance would be a better Idea though.


Um...wouldn't the 2 be mutually inclusive?


Oh the scots would not need independence if the English left first.


The capital of the Union resides in England. I don't see how the Union can continue without England's participation.

England will never make the first move though because they know they need the North Sea Oil and gas which would be under Scottish territorial waters post Union disintegration.



Mike1
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10 Sep 2012, 7:16 pm

Would the flag of the United Kingdom become obsolete if Scotland seceded? Union Jack is iconic and it'd be strange if it was no longer used. Plus every other countries flag that has Union Jack in it would have to be changed. It's been flown for centuries. It could be beneficial for Scotland to secede though. I'm partially descended from Scotsmen and have some distant relatives there, but it wouldn't affect me very much if Scotland seceded. I'm still interested in seeing how this plays out though.



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10 Sep 2012, 7:28 pm

I'm a U.S. citizen, and I'm in favour of an independent and free Scotland.

Same for Akrotiri, Anguilla, Ascension Island, Bailiwick of Guernsey, Bailiwick of Jersey, Bermuda, British Antarctic Territory, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Caicos Islands, Cayman Islands, Dhekelia, Ducie Island, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Henderson Island, Isle of Man , Montserrat, Oeno Island, Pitcairn Island, South Georgia Islands, South Sandwich Islands, St. Helena, The Turks, Tristan da Cunha, Ulster, and Wales.



Last edited by Fnord on 10 Sep 2012, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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10 Sep 2012, 7:28 pm

Ironic-that the big countries of europe are all breaking apart ( Bretons in France, Basques in Spain) while at the same time they are all merging into the larger European Union.

So if Scotland secedes will it join the European Union?

Will both England and scotland be in the European Union?



Last edited by naturalplastic on 12 Sep 2012, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JakobVirgil
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10 Sep 2012, 8:14 pm

thomas81 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
I am for it.
I think English Independance would be a better Idea though.


Um...wouldn't the 2 be mutually inclusive?


Oh the scots would not need independence if the English left first.


(1)The capital of the Union resides in England. I don't see how the Union can continue without England's participation.
(2)_England will never make the first move though because they know they need the North Sea Oil and gas which would be under Scottish territorial waters post Union disintegration.


1 that is the point.
2 this is why it will not happen


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Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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Underscore
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10 Sep 2012, 8:37 pm

Seems like they should, Scotland seem to be hidden in the background behind England. It's a bit sad.



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10 Sep 2012, 9:00 pm

I'd vote yes



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11 Sep 2012, 4:49 am

Yes. As long as I can still move there.

I lived in Shetland for a few years, and most of the talk was about independence for Shetland. So it'd be interesting to see how that went if Scotland voted yes in 2014.



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11 Sep 2012, 5:01 am

As someone who would prefer it if Scotland remained in the UK, I'd vote "no".

I doubt whether Scots will have anywhere near the required percentage of votes to achieve independence but, like the Northern Irish, the Welsh and the English, I believe we need a new settlement across the UK. The present one discriminates against the English - Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland get a much better deal out of the UK than the English do, as disproportionately more money is spent in those parts of the UK.

Frankly, I think the idea of Scottish independence as produced by the SNP is ludicrous - in the end, they wouldn't have much independence at all - they want to take their independence and give it to the EU.

I would suspect though that Scotland would probably have a similar status to the IFS post-1921 if it were to leave the UK. I can't see where most of the money will come from in order to feed their huge welfare state. The Irish people after partition didn't have such a large amount of public spending.

thomas81 wrote:
(1)The capital of the Union resides in England. I don't see how the Union can continue without England's participation.
(2)_England will never make the first move though because they know they need the North Sea Oil and gas which would be under Scottish territorial waters post Union disintegration.


Ah, "Scotland's oil". North Sea Oil will eventually run out and, in any case, the oil is in the North Sea. It doesn't necessarily have to go through Scotland. And the Shetlanders could also look at independence if the Scots did, as many of them don't feel especially Scottish, and they'd have enough oil to keep themselves going for a while.

Besides which, it's never a good entirely entirely to rely on oil. What else does Scotland have? Whisky?



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11 Sep 2012, 11:58 am

I would tend to the "No" side. What would Scottish independence actually achieve that devolution has not?

There are, to be sure, certain matters that remain within the jurisdiction of Westminster, but they are few, and the price of independence would be steep. I suspect that the cost of losing transfers from Westminster, and the obligation to pay for foreign affairs, defence and the like would be significantly higher than the tax revenue to support them.

For the last 300 years, England has been the muscle that has given effect to Scottish inspiration. Scotland produced Empire builders; England produced Empire rulers. Scotland produced innovators and inventors; England produced mercantilists. It would be a sad for Scotland if she lost English productivity; it would be a sad day for England if she lost Scottish innovation.


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11 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
I'm a U.S. citizen, and I'm in favour of an independent and free Scotland.

Same for Akrotiri, Anguilla, Ascension Island, Bailiwick of Guernsey, Bailiwick of Jersey, Bermuda, British Antarctic Territory, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, Caicos Islands, Cayman Islands, Dhekelia, Ducie Island, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Henderson Island, Isle of Man , Montserrat, Oeno Island, Pitcairn Island, South Georgia Islands, South Sandwich Islands, St. Helena, The Turks, Tristan da Cunha, Ulster, and Wales.


Classic misinformed.

Independence is based on consensus.

Why would a citizen of another country want Independence if the people in some of those territories are not wanting it?

I could go and mention all the US dependencies like the US virgin Islands, not smart. Or perhaps you give California to Mexico, or perhaps liberate Puerto Rico. Of course it is nonsense.