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E-FrameZenderblast
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25 Sep 2012, 6:11 am

I wasn't sure whether to put this under the writing subforum or this, but since it crops up in movies a lot I thought I might get better responses here...

Basically, I have noticed that in fantasy films, a lot of characters have epic sword fight battles in clothing which looks like really bad clothing to duel in, particularly long flowing robes and skirts. I have my own mental fantasy world which I have been thinking I may even try to write a novel about in a few years or so, and I have been doing some research into stuff relevant to that like historical cultures, technology, horse riding et cetera. On this topic however, there was nothing, so I thought I might ask here about how realistic this kind of fighting is.

I assumed it would be ridiculously hard and would result in tripping and being smothered in your own clothes before being killed in a humiliating position. I was, however, recently looking up about one of my favourite Jedi, Luminara Unduli, and found an interview of the actress (Mary Oyaya) who said that the robes she wore were very easy to move around in (but also that the actors' lightsaber training was quite basic and they made up the rest) which makes me cast doubt on this - could robes be designed in such a way that they are easy to do quick, unexpected movements in?

On an irrelevant side note, I think doing spins in sword duels is one of the stupidest things you could do (unless maybe you were surrounded on all sides by a very cowardly and stupid militia or something).



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25 Sep 2012, 8:10 am

I'm guessing it would depend on the robes and style of sword fighting.


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25 Sep 2012, 6:55 pm

It would depend on the robe, but I would say most robes are short enough and hold their form well enough that you wouldn't trip. Keep in mind Knights fought in a rather robe-like garment called a surcoat (though that was much shorter than most robes) and before everyone got articulated plate armor figured out, a plated skirt called a tasset was a common leg armor. The Scottish fought in kilts, and in the renaissance there where martial arts that used a cloak as a weapon. I'm not sure how effective these arts were because that was the age when civilian swordfighting was becoming popular, but they were there. Speaking as someone who wears a cloak every day, I assure you they are nowhere near as cumbersome as the incredibles would have you believe: most of the examples they give of a cape being a problem defy the laws of physics.

You are correct in thinking spinning is a stupid thing to do in a fight. Ripostes are what kills.



E-FrameZenderblast
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27 Sep 2012, 6:52 am

I know about surcoats and kilts, but what I was thinking of more was ankle or floor length garments. I did happen to find an image somewhere of some chinese armour with a long skirt, so assuming it is not ceremonial, it could be a realistic idea...

That thing about the cloak martial arts sounds interesting, I'll have to look it up at some point.



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27 Sep 2012, 10:33 pm

I can't imagine any garment that carries a risk of being stepped on in combat as being a wise choice of wardrobe, but I mostly study western martial arts as all the arguments I've been in about who would win in a fight between a knight and a samurai forever ruined eastern martial arts for me, so I would have no idea wether the chinese armor you mentioned was ceremonial or not.

I would imagine it involved throwing one's cloak over your opponent's head to temporarily blind them, but as I just saw it mentioned in a single line on wikipedia someone may have just made it up.



E-FrameZenderblast
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28 Sep 2012, 5:01 am

I actually looked at the page and it turned out it's a modern replica (or at least made in the style of medieval armour) and the maker specialises in Japanese armour but also does Persian and Chinese (the picture was next to this paragraph but is not captioned - looking at it more closely, I think it is most likely Japanese). Anyway, I figure that's probably good enough to go on - ankle-length robes are possible to fight in, as long as one does not lift one's foot up too high and moves too fast at the same time.



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28 Sep 2012, 5:20 am

It depends and maybe there could be a compromise in the design. I don't think most fantasy characters are prepared for full on battle at all time. Even Han Solo didn't have armor but kept his blaster handy.



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05 Oct 2012, 4:57 pm

Two different directions on this:

a) not realistic at all, though it could be racey if they were commando underneath.

b) if you have a couple people sitting around all day in bed/bathrobes and decided to pull swords on each other (in what a spa?) I think the premise that lead to that has to be enough of a trainwreck that it might almost be fascinating.

IMHO the Moro are probably some of the better to consider for practicality and yes, I can't imagine Filipinos choosing robes for combat.



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05 Oct 2012, 5:57 pm

In a real life situation - long after sword fighting times - outlaw Harvey Logan (aka Kid Curry) was in a fist fight with another man in a long coat in late 19th century Wyoming. The man got tripped up by his own coat, and the fight ended in his death when Logan was free to pull his gun. I imagine that would be a problem wearing a robe in a sword fight.

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05 Oct 2012, 6:16 pm

i have done steel on steel reenactment in ciking garments and armor,

if you are wearing a cloak it has to be heavy enough not to flutter and short enough not to catch when moving.

they are a hassle and often the first to go, even before drawing a sword.


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