Really Reuters? (persecution of atheists)

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http://news.yahoo.com/atheists-around-w ... wA11LQtDMD



In all seriousness, Non-Muslims regardless of belief are severely persecuted in various Islamic theocracies. Atheists are socially persecuted in America thanks to the Christian Right. Europe, it seems some places there are not as tolerant as others. At least this study pointed to the more severe forms of intolerance.

a's can't hold public office in some US states and can't testify at a trial in arkansas. not to mention the recent resignation of a west point cadet after ill treatment for atheism.

There is no such thing as social persecution. People have an absolute right to associate nor not associate with whomsoever they please. People exercising their rights to association are not persecuting anyone. No one has a legal or moral right to unconditional; acceptance by others.

ruveyn

Then what would you call it? It is social/cultural persecution.

It's a good thing that in America you can be an atheistic commie pig to your heart's content and not worry about being tied to the stake or having your head chopped off. Yeah, atheists and gay folks would be ostracized and ridiculed a lot in the Bible Belt and the backwater areas. That's when you keep your differences to yourself and wait for the opportunity to bounce.

If one group of people has less rights than others and it's not based on them having violated the rights of others, it's apartheid, fascism, social persecution, discrimination or whatever.
Whether you think people have a right to be that way has nothing to do with whether it exists. And by regular definitions, it does exist.

Apartheidt becomes an evil only when it is enforced by the arms of the State. There is nothing immoral about voluntary refusal to associated. People have the right to associate or not-associated voluntarily as they see fit. No one has the right to compel association with force or the threat of force.

ruveyn

Did you just say that atheists are persecuted by the Christian Right, or did I not read that correctly?
Are you kidding? I think it's the other way around. Look at what atheists are trying to do to Christmas, for example--they're on a warpath trying to remove all vestiges of Christianity that are in any public space! And please don't give me the "separation of church and state" argument, because that won't fly with me.

It seems to me like it is the atheists who are the real persecutors in this country.

So if I'm understanding correctly, you do agree that such social persecution can exist, but that it's only wrong when enforced by the state. Is that correct?

If so: In the article it says seven U.S. states bar atheists from public office, and one bars them from testifying as a witness. Given that this is apartheid/ social persecution enforced "by the arms of the State", do you agree that this at least is wrong?

In that case we only disagree on whether people themselves discriminating is wrong or not.

I liked this line in the comments.

"Telling an atheist that he is going to burn in hell is like telling an adult that Santa's not getting him any presents this year."

Tell that to all the Jews, Muslims and liberal Christians who want that stuff taken down.


Tell that to the gay community.

Or any kind of force. Government is Force, first and foremost. Laws that are not enFORCED are nothing.

Social association brought about by force or threat of force be it legal or otherwise is just plain wrong. Social association forbidden by force of threat of force be it legal or not, is also just plain wrong.

Compelling someone to perform services for others by force or threat of force is wrong. Forbidding one to perform services for others that one is willing to perform by force or threat of force is wrong.

All human associations should be voluntary, with the possible exception of caring for children that one brings into the world.

ruveyn

I'm pretty sure that such provisions, were they ever challenged in court, would be ruled unenforceable under U.S. constitutional law. That's not to say that ostracism & moral suspicion directed at non-believers are of no consequence, but those things don't constitute actual persecution.

Legally I think that you are incorrect.

You seem to be focussing your attention exclusively on the practice of ostracism. I certainly agree with you that a right to freedom of association includes the freedom not to associate. This, alone, does not give rise to a finding of persecution in my view. But when ostracism extends to employment, housing or access to public facilities, then that is a different story. And when the action of one's fellow citizens descends to the level of violence, then I suggest that social persecution--in other words persecution at the hands of one's fellow citizens--most certainly does exist.

The area of law in which the concept of "persecution" is most frequently encountered is in the area of refugee law. The Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (the 1951 Geneva Convention) defines a refugee as:



The definition does not require that the government of the country of nationality (or habitual residence) be the instrument of persecution. It is sufficient that the person faces a well founded fear of persecution and that the government of the country of nationality will not step in to protect the refugee from that persecution. There are numerous examples of people who have successfully demonstrated their refugee status on the basis of violence directed against them by reason of their sexual orientation, and the refusal of local authorities to prosecute or otherwise address that violence.

Now, that still leaves open the question of whether atheists are truly persecuted in the United States--but that can only be addressed in examining the circumstances of the particular atheist.

lmao @ the majority trying to claim persecution by the minority.

How would you feel if Muslims came in and replaced all of your public nativity scenes with, like, intricately painted patterns, and every time they'd usually write "merry Christmas" it said "Eid Sa‘īd"?

How do you propose we prevent such a catastrophe? Ban all the sectarian things!