"Salary range" stops me.

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I fill out many job applications, but on many applications, potential employers have a form field that says something like "Expected salary range" or "What is your expected salary range for this position?" Then they either make it impossible to submit the form with anything but a numerical input.

I do have a job right now, but because it's related to an interest I've had for almost 20 years and because I understand the subject matter drastically better than anyone else I've ever met, my job responsibilities in that position have grown exponentially compared to what they were when I was first hired. I do much more in that position than other people in the same role. But I have never gotten a raise in that position. I do know that I'm significantly underpaid, but I have no concept of what is appropriate compensation even for my current job. My current employer understands that I understand almost every particular detail about the subject and as a result has put me in charge of making decisions about the subject and about all related subjects.

I don't know how to answer this question, and it doesn't seem reasonable for potential employers to present it in the way that they do.

The particular aspects of a job might make that position more enjoyable for me, so I might be willing to accept less money in certain positions, but I don't have a bachelor's degree, so even though my level of knowledge is much greater than even someone who does have a bachelor's degree in the subject, I don't expect that employers would want to pay me much.

I am in a very unusual position in which my knowledge about the subject is drastically more than most likely applicants, even though other applicants have more formal training. From what I understand, low training means low salary, but if an employer talks to me for a few minutes, I can tell them not only all of the details about the subject, but most of the reasoning behind those details, and I can explain the entire history of the choices that led things to be the way they are.

That may be unclear, so I will give an example. Imagine that you are looking to hire a baker, if I was a baker(which in real life I am not). The first applicant has a baccalaureate degree and three years of experience. I don't have that degree, but I can build an oven from scratch, explain each of the chemical reactions happening during cooking and the details about how things like elevation and humidity can affect the product, can name every type of bread and their ingredients from memory, can explain where each type of bread came from, when it was first made, the different ways that each bread can be made, the different recipes that were developed before people decided that that particular way was going to be the way that people made that type of bread, et cetera. And this hypothetical me knows how to plant and harvest the wheat and other grains, what kinds of different nutrients are in said grains, and how to make them grow.

The way that I handle a situation I don't know the answer to is to completely stop. If my brain doesn't work in the way that you're asking me to work, I stop functioning. Just *nothing*. I have never completed an application if the potential employer asks this question.

Also, when I am looking for work, I don't start with a set salary in mind. If an employer lists a position with a set salary or salary range, I can come up with a decision about whether that range seems reasonable, but that range is different even depending on what I find out during an interview.

How do you handle this question?

Just tell us what you do.

Anyone reviewing a resume is comparing how valuable the applicant looks vs. how much he's asking for vs. the budget. It's nothing personal - you have to say how much you're expecting to be compensated for the position you're applying for.

Imagine shopping for a car, picking out the one that's best, then for the first time looking at how much each car costs - it's just a very inefficient way of approaching the situation. Whoever is looking at your application needs to be able to do a first pass on it within 2 minutes.

Ugh. I HATE that question. Just put $1 - $1,000,000.

No, don't do that. I don't know what you should do though, I've always failed at that question. It has usually been asked at interview though, so I have to give an immediate answer.

Look, it is an irksome question, but as Meerexistance pointed out, it's actually a fair question for employers to ask. It's an important part of employment negotiation. I know you wish to opt out of negotiation, but it will cost you. Adults are expected to negotiate for themselves when it comes to the important things in life and isn't remuneration for what you spend 40% of your waking hours working at, one of the most important reasons to negotiate?

Here are some tips to arrive at a figure.
-You know what you are currently making. That's your sub-bottom figure. Ask for something higher.
-Google salary. There are a plethora of sites that give figures. Look at them to get feel for the range in your field.
-Apply to an employment agency which specializes in your field. (Find one by browsing newsletters and newspapers devoted to your industry). They will talk about salary with you. You don't have to use their services once you've spoken to them, though you may find that you wish to do so.

It's well worth your time and exposure to discomfort to go through the process of learning what salary range is reasonable. It's your livelihood.

Years ago, when I was faced with needing to negotiate for something with an experienced negotiator, I was terrified. I got the book; You Can Negotiate Anything, by Herb Cohen. It's a fairly interesting read and it's probably one of most valuable books I've ever read. It changed how I feel about negotiation and I still rely on the principals I learned. That book is still in print.

I almost always put "negotiable" in that box... Most employers already have an idea what they are willing to offer for a pay scale. You might end up at the lower end of the scale with this approach, but if that is alright with you and you already have a ballpark estimate of what you need/should be getting as an average, you can certainly negotiate that when it comes up.

Try sites like glassdoor.com to find out what those in your field are currently making. The company you are applying for may be listed, but if it is not, at least you can search through similar/competing companies to see what is average for the type of job you are looking for.

Is the formal training required for you to do certain tasks? Examples of this (in the UK) would include electrical and gas work which require qualified people to do the work, simply having the knowledge is not enough.

Is the knowledge you have required for you to be able to do the job? Using your baker example much of the knowledge held by the (hypothetical) candidate is not relevant for the job in hand (they would not be building the oven, chemically analysing the product, growing the grain). A qualification in bread making (along with experience) would be far more useful.

An employer may be wary of an overqualified (with qualifications not relevant to the task in hand) as they are likely to think that the tasks are beneath them and constantly be looking for a new job.



Do any of the adverts for the jobs give a proposed salary range for the position. Almost all the (non commission based) jobs I see advertised give details of the salary except for the very highest positions.

Most large or public sector employers will have defined pay bands (often negotiated with the trade unions) and strict criteria for allocating rolls to these pay bands. The people conducting the interview would not be able to negotiate on pay with individual staff members.



That would be a valid answer although if asked at interview it would probably be worth just stating the lowest salary that you would be prepared to work for. I don't see why anybody would have an upper limit to the amount they would accept.

I did see a recruitment agency form that asked for a pay range from the applicant, it was possible to set a low marker on this lower than the legal minimum wage, however the next option was quite a bit above the minimum.

I know that it is illegal to do certain jobs without having a specific college degree in that field. That's typically done because doing those jobs involves a significant amount of danger to someone. No jobs I am interested in have such requirements.

Actually, I did start a business in the field. I wasn't very good at running it, but that was more an issue of me not being good at running a business than me not being good at the job. My customers were almost always very satisfied.

I hate this so much. I have spent most of my life wanting to do one particular job, and my significant experience in the field is what makes me unhireable.

If a potential employer has published a range, that's fine, and I understand what they intend to pay. But it's not reasonable for them to ask me the amount they should pay for a job when they have budgeted a particular amount of money for that position.

Try and google how much people in a similar position typically make, and put that value (always low-ball it if there's a range or you aren't sure). For the application you want your salary to be listed pretty low but reasonable; once they offer you the job then you can negotiate to raise your salary if it's lower than you'd like.

That's always irked me a bit, too. BUT, I'm in one of those niche fields where I know my experience is extremely valuable. I've interviewed with two local companies who really wanted to hire me, but, we could have wasted a lot of time, if we hadn't discussed salary so early in the process, because they paid significantly less than I was earning in the position I was in at the time.

I say to try to find a way to input somewhere in the form 'salary is negotiable, will vary based upon further discussion'.

But, you can put together a starting number.

I always tell people to have at least 3 sources.

Something generic (salary.com / Indeed.com/salary are good places to start for normal job titles or industries hiring right now)
A filterable query ( NACE Salary Calculator http://www.jobsearchintelligence.com/NA ... tor-intro/ - Uses filtering technologies, based on information from the US government sources such as the DOL, BLS, Census, etc. NACE salary calculator
A trade organization (an architect or engineer might search for a salary survey done by the AIA or ASHE, or if you've got a microsoft or cisco certification search for a survey based on that http://mcpmag.com/salarysurveys/ , https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-10518 - basically anything done by a body representing your specific industry)

If you have at least three sources, you'll feel more certain when you type in a starting number.

Leave the field blank or put "negotiable" or "fair market".

If you work in a field that often involves intellectual property agreements ("NDAs") as in tech/engineering, just say your compensation agreement is covered by your current/former employer's NDA and you can't share that information. That's the "professional" way out of this query.

Bottom line: There's nothing good that comes from sharing this information. It was two results, from the employer's eyes:

1) Weed out candidates that want too much $$
2) Highlight people willing to work for cheap.

None of that helps you.

It's best to determine the actual salary range of the position before you start negotiation. Do this if at all possible. Then you know their working range. Starting in the middle, if that number is acceptable to you, is the best bet. If the mid-range of the job is too low for your tastes, remember that coming in on the higher end of the range reduces your chances of getting an offer and makes raises later more difficult -- It's a good indication to look for another position.

Whatever you do, do not quote a minimum figure! They will give you slightly over that figure. Start with the high end... "Well, I'd like to be making...". They'll of course offer you less, but depending on how much less, you can either accept it, or try to wiggle more out of them. In an ideal situation, the "like to be making" figure is an attainable target for future raises, and the actual starting salary is more than you hoped for in the first place.

Remember: Always try to negotiate more, because it almost always gets you something. I know, us aspies hate that process, it seems so... Evil. But such is business.

Keep in the back of your mind: "I'm a badass and deserve it!"

I'm going to disagree with everyone who suggests avoid the question one way or another. When you're asked "what is your expected salary?" your answer must be a number. Anything else is not an answer and the employers are not so stupid as to miss that fact. They may or may not press the point, but they'll definitely note that you've failed to answer the question.

Yes, it's a difficult question to answer, but it's also a very important and reasonable one. If I'm looking to buy something, the very first thing I want to know is the price. A salesman usually wants to tell me all about how great the product is, but I want the price up front. Why? Because I have a certain price range in mind (which I'm not willing to disclose to them) and if it's way out of my price range then I couldn't care less how good it is and any discussion is a waste of my time. This is what's happening here. The employer wants to know if they can afford you, simple as that. If you don't know your market value then you need to do your research and find out, because it will come up at some point before you get the job, sooner or later, so you may as well be clear on it up-front. Salary research sites (as already mentioned) are a good start, but if your job is highly unusual then you may have to resort to a bit of trial and error - start on the higher side and see what kind of responses you get. At the end of the day, there's no precise formula for this, so someone (either you or the employer) just has to throw out a number and see if there are any takers!

The same thing works the other way, too - the employer really should publish the salary range for an advertised job, but in most transactions the balance of power is on the side of the buyer and this is no exception. Still, lack of salary information in an ad is a strong negative from my point of view. (So much so that I ignored most such ads, but depending on your location and industry that might filter out all ads.)

By the way, you can give a range, but in my experience it doesn't work well. The employer would assume that I'm willing to work for the lower figure, but I'm just dreaming that someone might pay me the higher one out of the goodness of their heart. What I actually meant was: "I'm really looking for the higher figure, but would consider the lower one if the job is really good in other ways", but I couldn't exactly say that without telling them their job didn't qualify as "really good in other ways". So it's better to just give one number. If you do give a range, make sure it's a fairly tight one. Saying "$50,000 to $100,000" is just another way of saying "I don't know". Again, it's not something the employer will miss.

Another point: "expected salary" is not to be confused with "current salary". "Current salary" is a question of fact - there is only one correct answer. (And it's really none of their business, but many employers do ask and telling them it's confidential won't be well-received.) Your "expected salary" can be much higher, but of course you should be prepared to explain why, as you've done in this thread.

The last post is great, and I agree completely, but I do have something I want to add...

Most people are probably reading this thinking that asking the price is an effort to force the applicant into a low range, but underpricing yourself can actually be a bad thing. I have to interview / hire people at lot at my current job, and I have a specific range budgeted for every position. When I get an applicant that's below my range, it's a strike, because I can afford someone better. Of course, if the applicant is great and I'm getting him for a cheap price, that's wonderful, but in all odds that's not what I'm seeing - I'm seeing someone who is actually worth less. If I happen to have a lower budget, I should know that I'm going to get someone who's worth less, and as long as my expectations are in line, that's exactly who I'm looking to find.

If I'm meeting the right person for the job, I want them to also be the right price for the job (not higher or lower). I'll expect them to earn their keep and work at the level that they're being paid, but someone who's "cheap" isn't what I need, because I'll have to make up for their lack of ability in other ways to get the job done.

As an employer, it really bothers me when people don't give me a straight answer when I ask them what they are comfortable making. I understand that salaries for positions (especially tech. positions) vary wildly depending on experience - but you usually have some idea what you want to be making.

All I'm looking for as an employer is a starting point for salary negotiations - it doesn't play at all into my decision of whether or not to bring someone in for an interview, but it does give me a frame of reference for how much experience the applicant thinks he/she has.

Also, the idea that I'll choose someone based on how much I have to pay them is absurd. If there's someone that I like, I'll try to hire them. If they're asking for too much money - then I'll tell them I can't pay them what they want and we'll go from there - if they're asking for too little, I'll offer them more and everyone walks away happy.

I'd have no idea what to put for that but I'm not sure if the crummy low paying jobs I'd have to get even ask that.

You could put "0", which would mean "negotiable." I once didn't hire someone who was perfect for the job and could have run the department after I left because she wouldn't come down off of her salary requirement. I was about to leave and her salary requirement was my salary, which she would have gotten if she had just kept her mouth shut and waited, but she was coming from a high cost of living area and I was in a low cost of living area and despite all the hints I gave her she just didn't get it.

I managed an IT department for a few years and I didn't like it when people gave me a dollar amount on applications. I got so many people who had terrible skills trying to trick me into paying them more than they were worth that it started to really irritate me. I would rather someone didn't tell me a number and then came in and told me their skills. THEN we can negotiate. I would take that as proper business behavior.

And as a manager I would have no control over a mandatory required field from HR.