Narcissism, Psychopathy etc.

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Did anyone have some experiences with people you have suspected of suffering from these, um, conditions? Of course the title is somewhat inaccurate, as I think the DSM-V has come up with something different, but then I have heard that the DSM has never been a very scientific thing. I once attended a talk by Simon Baron-Cohen, which was related his book about the Science of Evil. He talked at great length about the difference between cognitive and affective empathy (too bad that some people on the talk didn't quite get the difference alas, and were asking whether African child soldiers were autistic!). People with "evil" personality disorders may have plenty of the former but very little to nothing of the latter, and with people on the Spectrum it is the exact opposite (although they can make up for the lack of cognitive empathy through a conscious effort). It is of course perfectly possible to lack both, as a recent horrifying tragedy has shown- I think that for the time being, I should not delve deeper into this issue for the sake of curiosity out of respect for the many victims of this atrocity. Too much panic and hatred has been stirred after these senseless and tragic deaths.

Now without being sensationalist or intruding on anyone's privacy, I would just like to ask if anyone has had long-term exposure (e.g. in the form of friendships) to Narcissists or worse. It's been a while since that all happened, and I am now in a position to reflect on it from a safe distance. Because I strongly suspect that I have.It makes you feel so... dirty and used and disempowered... as if you are a puppet on strings or a meaningless doormat, a thing to be dominated. While I was spared any serious abuse, I did feel the manipulation and that sense of getting put into a box and having to stay in there. Not that I am implying the persons in questions were bona fide Narcs, but certain traits were definitely there. I did not have long-term traumatic experience (although it was an extreme situation in the end, and I was contemplating suicide and was on the verge of engaging in self-harm), but so far I have only found that the best strategy is keeping one's distance.

Sorry if this rambling, inane excuse of a post causes any disturbance or offense! And sorry for my overly apologetic style, this is just what I do for the lack of "proper social skills" and rest assured, I also mean it in a way!

I never had a longterm friendship with a person with any of those disorders.

But I made some esperiences with ppl having those disorders.

I once had a mathteacher at university (not very long) who was deffinitly and very classical narcissist. He even walked in a way, showing that he is the most special person on earth and if you turn in your paper just one minute too late you were duned. He stoped the time. We had to hand them in before class, so we all had to come earlier.
He didn't accept any appologies for nothing. No sickness, no nothing.


I also had a friend, well not a very close friend, but a friend. He was once dx with borderline and narcissism. I wasn't very convinced. He commited suicide in the end. So I can't say much to it.

I had once psychopathy as a special interest. It just lasted a view weeks or something. In this time I also wrote with ppl on the I-Net, who very close to psychopathy. Psychopathy is of course a spectrum than any other disorder. It's not in the DSM or in the ICD though, but I think there is much to it and psychopathy exists. It overlaps especially with antisocial PD and also with narcissism, but those are not the same. But all fullblown psychopaths are propably in some way antisocial and narcissists.

But there is also a very interesting case, Jim Fallon. He has the brain of a psychopath and talks about it openly, but is not a fullblown psychopath, but he refers to himself as a "psychopath light":

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8RxRn6dWU[/youtube]

I haven't been the victim of a full-on narcissicist, but I have been exploited and manipulated by 'subclinical narcs' as I fondly call them. Even these soft psychopaths have a major impact on certain kinds of people. They take, take, take everything from you and leave you feeling like mud. Some of them learned to be like that due to their life experiences. Others were never taught NOT to be like that. They can aggravate your symptoms if you have some kind of neurological difference but act all innocent as if it was all your fault and you end up apologising.

I no longer let these people into my life, if I can help it. I've kicked out the old narcs and my life is full of worthwhile relationships. If I can't help associating with a narc, the defences are right up. They can't upset me. I don't get drawn into their little games.

If you suspect someone in your life of being a narcissist, or narcissist-like, think how much better life would be if you didn't have to put up with them and play their games. Remove yourself from them as far as possible. If they're family and you can't get away, drop your expectations of them as a mother, sister, father, brother etc.. Just nod and smile and spend as little time with them as possible.

"Sub-clinical narcs", I think that is a great way of putting it! I wish you all the best for the future. Thank you so much for the insight and that link in particular! Sometimes I think, that in at least in the case of narcissism upbringing and the environment must be the main factors. It seems that it is often the people who are raised to feel special, that are made to feel that the world is their oyster (not that there was any malign intent by their parents), who become like that. They may even be perfectly nice people at times (so I am not saying that they necessarily have NPD) but they develop the Narc traits due to their sense of self being so warped. I am very regretful to say that this is the case with some close family members as well, fortunately though the good and decent traits outweigh the Narcissism lite most of the time. But as for the case of the friendships mentioned in the first post- it is a different thing. I think what makes it so hurtful is the fact that one's trust is abused.

PS: I think Fallon turned out a rounded human being because he had a good childhood. It is saddening to think what the outcome would have been if it had been otherwise... Although I must say that his politics are definitely not mine, if I may be so bold.

Hi all, i would firstly like to give you praise for expressing what has happened to you at the hands of these tortured souls, i have written some articles on the subject and it's effect on our society as a whole, if you are interested you can find them here, take care, keep working on yourselves to clear away your hurt and suffering and be your true selves, as nobody can ever take advantage in anyway again when you are so .

please search for golden prince 13 without spaces in my name at hub pages and see my article The perfect narcissistic world , as i cannot post addresses until i have posted 5 times,

take good care all of you .

p.s the subliminal ones are actually named covert and they are the most insidious of them all, as many are fooled for a long time by them , but subliminals is a great name as they spend there time doing that to those they abuse to control them.

I've dated/been in a relationship with a pathological liar, but never someone with disorders above, and while their issues made me question after how the breakup went after about two years together if they ever really cared or loved me, they have since made much progress and while not apologizing for their awful actions (which could have been considered emotionally abusive , and emotionally/maybe sexually manipulative) we have been able to reconcile and have a normal friendship even though the romantic aspect of said relationship could never be salvaged. So not completely on topic but in some ways quite similar to one with those disorders but manageable..

I had very little personal contact with him, but my uncle was probably a psychopath. I asked my Dad the questions from the PCL-R, and my uncle scored a 29 (depending on who you ask, the cutoff is either 25 or 30). He was nine years older than my Dad. In some ways, he was a nice older brother, although sometimes in delinquent ways (helping my Dad get underage liquor, for example). But he also sexually abused my Dad and regularly exploited him in many different ways. He seemed to have no concern for how his actions might affect someone else. He was also extremely reckless - my Dad says he once joked that if all the stitches he'd ever gotten were in at the same time, his head would look like a baseball. He did things like storing an axe in the rafters, that sort of thing.

I had a lot more contact with his kids, because when my Dad found out he was physically and sexually abusing them, social services gave my parents custody. One of my cousins was definitely not a psychopath, though she was really messed up in her own way. The other one got the same score as his father - 29. I don't think he's a psychopath, though, because psychopaths typically have low anxiety, and my cousin was extremely anxious. He used to get so stressed out that he'd start hallucinating 'ghosts' in our house. If I had to diagnose him, I'd say the most likely diagnosis is RAD (reactive attachment disorder), which is consistent with the abuse he suffered. Both him and his sister also showed disinhibited social behavior when younger (RAD kids often act overly friendly to strangers, things like climbing on a stranger's lap or trying to go home with them). And RAD can sometimes mimic psychopathy, because the lack of attachment can make the kid cruel to others.