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GoonSquad
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25 Jan 2013, 9:30 am

The US needs to watch this closely and LEARN.

SOURCE


In Greece:

Quote:
In this winter of austerity and Depression-era unemployment, a fog of woodsmoke hangs over the Greek capital on cold nights.

It's coming from the tens of thousands of fireplaces and wood-burning stoves Athenians are using to heat their homes. Most can no longer afford heating oil, the price of which has risen 40 percent since last year. The government also cut a fuel subsidy for low-income families earlier this month.

Some Greeks buy cheap firewood; others used their discarded Christmas trees as kindling. The most desperate are burning old furniture and raiding protected forests. Someone even hacked away the remains of a 3,000-year-old olive tree where Plato is said to have taught.


In the working-class suburb of Aegaleo, west of Athens, 41-year-old Sotiris Sotiriou and his two young daughters, Magda and Sophia, are bundled up in thick sweaters. They add wood from olive-tree saplings in the flames of their living-room fireplace. The saplings grow on a small family plot outside Athens.

"Last year, the fireplace was just decorative," says Sotiriou, who also owns a home improvement shop. "This year, it's how we heat our home."

Like many Greeks, Sotiriou and his wife, Haroula Lappa, cannot afford to buy heating oil. Sotiriou has no business at his home-improvement store, since the Greek construction industry has all but halted.

Nearly all of Lappa's salary as a court clerk goes to their $930 monthly home mortgage payment. After groceries and tax bills, there's nothing left for the heating oil, she says.

She goes outside for a walk and smells the scent of woodsmoke from other fireplaces.

Two weeks ago, she also smelled something else: burning paint.

"Someone must have been burning a door with the windows still set in," she says. "When the girls and I were walking home, it was hard to breathe. We used our coats as masks."

Greeks may actually be burning old furniture to stay warm, says Stephanos Sambatakakis of the Hellenic Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

Scientists are studying the particles in the noxious fumes, which could soon leave people suffering from inflamed eyes, respiratory problems, headaches and nausea, he says. Long-term effects could include lung inflammation and, "in extreme cases, lung cancer," he says.

Environmentalist Grigoris Gourdomichalis is worried about another scourge — deforestation. Twice a day, he and his colleagues climb into a jeep and patrol a protected forest on a hill west of Athens. Illegal logging is rampant here.

He says it's not just the poor cutting down saplings to use as fuel to stay warm. Poachers also sell the wood for profit.

"Before World War II, this forest had so many trees," Gourdomichalis says. "But the Germans and Italians took the heating oil and coal during the war, and Greeks were forced to chop down all the trees for firewood so they could cook and keep themselves warm. The forest has since recovered, so we can't let it be destroyed again."

He says the patrols have stopped some of the deforestation. But then he and a colleague spot another threat to the forest: Someone has destroyed a giant water tank used to fight summer forest fires. Gourdomichalis says the tank's steel frame was cut to be sold as scrap metal.

"People are destroying everything in a desperate effort to survive, or they're using the crisis to make a profit," he says, shaking his head in despair.

He peers out the jeep's window at the city below. It's getting dark and cold. He sees the first wisps of the smoky fog that will soon hang over his city.




In the U.K.

Quote:
(Reuters) - Britain's economy shrank more than expected at the end of 2012 with a North Sea oil production slump, lower factory output and a hangover from London's Olympics pushing it perilously close to a "triple-dip" recession.

The country's gross domestic product fell 0.3 percent in the fourth quarter, the Office for National Statistics said on Friday, sharper than a 0.1 percent decline forecast by analysts.

The news is a blow for Britain's Conservative-led government, which a day earlier defended its austerity program against criticism from the International Monetary Fund. It needs solid growth to meet its budget targets, keep a triple-A debt rating and bolster its chances of winning a 2015 election.


Sterling fell to its lowest in 13-1/2 months against the euro and hit a five-month low against the dollar in response to the data. The euro was also buoyed by a stronger-than-expected German Ifo sentiment survey.

"There are no positive takeaways from today's first (GDP)estimate," said Lee Hopley, chief economist for the EEF manufacturers' association. "Even assuming some unwinding of activity from the Olympics boost in the previous quarter, this still leaves no real signs of underlying growth in the economy."

Britain's economy is now 3.3 percent smaller than its peak in Q1 2008, having recovered only about half the output lost during the financial crisis - a worse performance than most other major economies.

The country slipped back into recession in the last three months of 2011, and only emerged from it in the third quarter of 2012, after a boost from the London Olympics.

After a bout of snowy weather in January - which is likely to have hit spending and output - the risk is that the economy will continue to shrink in the first three months of this year, technically pushing it into a rare "triple dip" recession.

Britain's biggest department store group, John Lewis JLP.UL, said earlier on Friday that snow was responsible for its sales growth stalling in the latest week.


Sticking to austerity in bad economic times is madness. You cannot grow an economy by making poor people suffer.

EDIT: I tried to link to the Reuters story but it screwed up the post... :?


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Last edited by GoonSquad on 25 Jan 2013, 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

GoonSquad
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25 Jan 2013, 9:32 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc[/youtube]
8)


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answeraspergers
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25 Jan 2013, 12:44 pm

thats a cool video

personally i believe the concept of money will soon fail



visagrunt
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25 Jan 2013, 1:12 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
thats a cool video

personally i believe the concept of money will soon fail


To be replaced with what? An economy requires a medium of exchange, so unless you're suggesting that we are going to fall back into the Stone Age, I don't really see your belief having a great deal of traction.

Individual currencies failing? Sure, I have no problem foreseeing that. But the entire concept of a medium of exchange? No way.


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J-Greens
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25 Jan 2013, 1:15 pm

This current level of austerity isn't working because there is no growth. But you can't just pass the bill onto future generations...and the shadow chancellor is even worse.

There is no plan. There is no New Deal.

But putting the economy back in Labour's hands? Have we learnt nothing? :?



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25 Jan 2013, 1:17 pm

Quote:
Sterling fell to its lowest in 13-1/2 months against the euro and hit a five-month low against the dollar in response to the data. The euro was also buoyed by a stronger-than-expected German Ifo sentiment survey.


Seems like a good thing when you have a trade deficit.

Quote:
After a bout of snowy weather in January - which is likely to have hit spending and output - the risk is that the economy will continue to shrink in the first three months of this year, technically pushing it into a rare "triple dip" recession.


Fail.



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25 Jan 2013, 1:28 pm

trollcatman wrote:

Quote:
After a bout of snowy weather in January - which is likely to have hit spending and output - the risk is that the economy will continue to shrink in the first three months of this year, technically pushing it into a rare "triple dip" recession.


Fail.


You disagree? I feel that this current weather situation is always bad news for economic recovery. What the economy needs more at the moment is the sound of flowing cash tills, not clicks of kettles and fireplaces.



GoonSquad
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25 Jan 2013, 1:29 pm

J-Greens wrote:
This current level of austerity isn't working because there is no growth. But you can't just pass the bill onto future generations...and the shadow chancellor is even worse.

There is no plan. There is no New Deal.

But putting the economy back in Labour's hands? Have we learnt nothing? :?


But you MUST MUST MUST grow the economy FIRST. A growing economy will produce jobs and increased tax revenue.

Then you can cut spending and pay down your debt... and the working class won't suffer.

This way, you are headed for angry mobs with torches and pitchforks.

Remember the riots?

There is simply too much money pooled at the top these days. That must change. One way or another.


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25 Jan 2013, 1:53 pm

But the economy isn't a roulette wheel. You can't just go red or black, you need a plan of growth whilst cutting the deficit

Osbourne has lumped us on austerity, while Balls wants to lump us on spending and neither will work. Some forecasters are threatening of catastrophic news that the triple A will be under threat if this level of shrinking continues.

And yet Cameron's priority is getting us out of the EU. At a time when we need as many friends as possible. :roll:



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25 Jan 2013, 1:55 pm

J-Greens wrote:
trollcatman wrote:

Quote:
After a bout of snowy weather in January - which is likely to have hit spending and output - the risk is that the economy will continue to shrink in the first three months of this year, technically pushing it into a rare "triple dip" recession.


Fail.


You disagree? I feel that this current weather situation is always bad news for economic recovery. What the economy needs more at the moment is the sound of flowing cash tills, not clicks of kettles and fireplaces.


It's just that a couple of years ago there was talk of an upcoming double dip. The expectation of a triple dip just sounds like epic failure to me. This is not a jab at the British, just laughing because of the phrasing.



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25 Jan 2013, 2:10 pm

trollcatman wrote:
It's just that a couple of years ago there was talk of an upcoming double dip. The expectation of a triple dip just sounds like epic failure to me. This is not a jab at the British, just laughing because of the phrasing.


Why not? We're jabbing at Osbourne. The man doesn't even a degree in Economics and yet is the most important governmental figure for Economics for the whole country, and in part, the world. Yet other world economists have degrees or better. Geithner has one, Mervyn has one, Draghi has one. Osbourne doesn't.



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25 Jan 2013, 2:27 pm

@ visagrunt. Far from the end of money being a return to the stone age it will actually be for our advancement. We should evolve beyond this inadequate petty amoral unjust method imo.

One day I may explain my view fully.

Until then refer to star strek :D



visagrunt
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25 Jan 2013, 2:34 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
@ visagrunt. Far from the end of money being a return to the stone age it will actually be for our advancement. We should evolve beyond this inadequate petty amoral unjust method imo.

One day I may explain my view fully.

Until then refer to star strek :D


Romantic nonsense.

If I am going to trade my skills and expertise for the things that I want in my life (not just the things that I need), there has to be a mechanism for doing so.


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25 Jan 2013, 2:42 pm

answeraspergers wrote:
@ visagrunt. Far from the end of money being a return to the stone age it will actually be for our advancement. We should evolve beyond this inadequate petty amoral unjust method imo.

One day I may explain my view fully.

Until then refer to star strek :D


On Star Trek they often bargain with made-up commodities. They trade some technobabble object for some other technobabble object. Sometimes they stoop so low as to bargain "food replicator rations". Currency would be the biggest invention these people could discover.



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25 Jan 2013, 2:50 pm

trollcatman wrote:
On Star Trek they often bargain with made-up commodities. They trade some technobabble object for some other technobabble object. Sometimes they stoop so low as to bargain "food replicator rations". Currency would be the biggest invention these people could discover.


Hm. Don't the Ferengi use some sort of currency? I'd bet the Romulans & Cardassians secretly hoard huge piles of cash somewhere as well. Klingons are desperately poor by the look of those ships, scrapheap buckets.

Perhaps answeraspergers wants to join the Borg?
No thanks.

I'd be joining the Ferengi. Definite laugh there.



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25 Jan 2013, 2:59 pm

Its not romantic nonsense because I have not explained and you have not thought about it

look into futurology if it interests you but dont just reflexively dismiss

I have admitted im no frame of mind to explain my views deeply - i still have them and they are still not nonsense.

I was thinking more of credits than being "the borg" lol