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Mootoo
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12 Feb 2013, 9:33 am

That is, what is the limit? What would be transgressing some certain law, and what would be just sufficiently aggressive to get the point across without them being able to arrest? (Or, if they do, they'll find that they have nothing to charge us with.)

I know this would be a generalization, and by default I'm typically friendly with anyone who appears similarly friendly... but, the legal force the police have is also universal (which usually also makes them feel like they have a legal right to be aggressive), so I might as well adopt a generalized, and not naive approach to these kind of people (just like I try as much as possible to avoid chavs, etc... oh, you want to know what those two groups in society have in common, generally? A certain kind of attitude, of course. There may be some intelligent chavs, just like there may be some truly friendly police (and in fact I did meet at least one)... but they do typically fit a stereotype).

And FYI, I want to be aggressive within reason... as e.g. I got stopped (and superficially searched) a month ago by some police, and it was apparently only because it was in the middle of the night and I had a bicycle (they said it's because some bikes have been stolen recently... oh, the caustic irony... when one of my bikes was stolen some years ago they did f**k all), and now I feel afraid to go out in the middle of the night due to that (and I'm afraid to go out in the day due to the outrageous amounts of noise generally present, so I feel trapped). What irks me is that they tried to appear friendly by also asking me what I'm studying at college etc. - this doesn't, though, outweigh the negativity of the fearfulness I now feel. So, if I'm ever stopped again, would it be just fine to say "it's none of your business" if they ask about anything other than names etc?

Just as the limit is to shout at people's faces (and, AFAIK, saying "f**k off" is perfectly legal), what's the absolute limit with the police? Surely I'm not legally obliged to be friendly - as, generally, whoever sees the application of physical force to be a necessity is the last person to deserve friendliness. I understand the police are supposed to keep other groups of people who are similarly in love with physical force at bay, but so far, in my life at least, they happened to ignore me, at best, *every* single time I needed help (although admittedly they weren't typical 'burglar scenarios' - still, completely ignore me when my bicycle is stolen, and three years later accuse me of having stolen one for no good reason?!)



GGPViper
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12 Feb 2013, 10:22 am

I'm not from the UK, but this is what I could find from the UK Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (revised as of 7 March 2011)
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publicatio ... iew=Binary

4.3A:
"For the purposes of completing the search record, there is no requirement to record
the name, address and date of birth of the person searched or the person in charge
of a vehicle which is searched and the person is under no obligation to provide this
information."


That being said, being intentionally aggressive towards police officers is probably not the smartest course of action, especially if one has AS.

This (IMO, funny) clip from the US illustrates why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nQ_mFJV4I

And don't rely on the police to deal with bicycle theft. Rely on chain locks.



Tequila
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12 Feb 2013, 10:37 am

Mootoo wrote:
Just as the limit is to shout at people's faces (and, AFAIK, saying "f**k off" is perfectly legal)

That's a very stupid course of action, and could easily lead to you being arrested and fined for abusive and threatening behaviour (if I was a copper, I'd arrest you for behaving like that towards me). You don't want to annoy the police if you can help it, as they have the power to make your dealings with them more difficult than they need be.

Just be brisk and businesslike with them, and they'll be out of your face as soon as they can.



Last edited by Tequila on 12 Feb 2013, 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

TallyMan
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12 Feb 2013, 10:37 am

A true story of what happened to a friend of mine in the UK: He and his wife were driving somewhere and got pulled over by a police car. Turned out they had narrowly exceeded the speed limit. My friend was polite with the officer and apologised, being fully compliant showing the cop his licence and insurance documents. The cop then let him off telling him to watch his speed in future. My friends wife who was sitting in the passenger seat shouted out to the cop as he was walking away "Pity you've got nothing better to do with your time". The cop came back and booked him for speeding - points off his licence and a fine.


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Tequila
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12 Feb 2013, 10:39 am

TallyMan wrote:
A true story of what happened to a friend of mine in the UK: He and his wife were driving somewhere and got pulled over by a police car. Turned out they had narrowly exceeded the speed limit. My friend was polite with the officer and apologised, being fully compliant showing the cop his licence and insurance documents. The cop then let him off telling him to watch his speed in future. My friends wife who was sitting in the passenger seat shouted out to the cop as he was walking away "Pity you've got nothing better to do with your time". The cop came back and booked him for speeding - points off his licence and a fine.

I bet the poor friend was livid with her.



TallyMan
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12 Feb 2013, 10:44 am

Tequila wrote:
I bet the poor friend was livid with her.


Quite! :lol: IMO it is always better to be polite and helpful with the police. If people try to be difficult with them, the cops tend to be difficult back.


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12 Feb 2013, 3:28 pm

Tell a JSO officer in Jacksonvile to "(bleep) off" and see if you don't get the Rodney King treatment.



Jaden
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12 Feb 2013, 8:59 pm

Well apparently some can simply have a butter knife in their hand and be shot dead by police, so I'd say they have a little too many trigger happy douchers on the force. In that instance I'd say a simple insult is likely to cause them to go off, who knows in this day and age.


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Sweetleaf
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12 Feb 2013, 9:00 pm

Not as aggressive as they can be against us I imagine.


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Raptor
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12 Feb 2013, 9:28 pm

Maybe it is legal to tell a cop to F off but I don't recommend it, especially in a traffic stop.
I've gotten of easy on some traffic stops because I wasn't obnoxious (I know that's hard to believe :P).
I pull over as far as I can off of the highway so they don't have to get close to the traffic when they approach.
I have my licence, insurance card, and registration ready and the window down.
If it's at night time I turn on the interior lights and have my hands in view.
No ass kissing just plain courteousness.
They usually appreciate the effort and most of my tickets have been downgraded to lesser speeds (a lot less of a fine) or I've even gotten off with a warning a few times. Maybe I've just been lucky but so far it's worked out for me. I don't plan to ever push my luck.

DON'T make any fast moves when a cop is walking up to your vehicle after pulling you over. When I was 16 I had a city cop draw his pistol on me for reaching for the glove compartment for my registration as he approached.


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salem44dream
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12 Feb 2013, 9:32 pm

Someone I know who's also an aspie tried to shield his eyes with rapid motions of his arms from the bright high beams of a police cruiser. He was walking home after his evening shift ended. The cop brutalized him verbally and physically, and after "backup" arrived, other cops took over, recognizing my friend's problem with too much sensory stimulation.



ripped
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15 Feb 2013, 1:55 am

Without betraying the ethics of whichever side of the fence you sit.
You can't.
Those called upon to put their life on the line deserve politeness.
Even if all you can show it through is silence.

You don't have to respect a person or the job they do to respect that they are a person just like you.

These just aren't the times to push those kinds of limits intentionally, because many others will be pushing them without being able to help it. And those ones will need all the goodwill they can get.



xenon13
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15 Feb 2013, 2:32 am

I've seen demonstrators charge the cops in front of them...



ripped
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15 Feb 2013, 2:36 am

I am just saying by the beginnings of it, this looks like a mad year.
Gunmen, shootings. Serious stuff. Not kids trying to look tough by swearing.



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15 Feb 2013, 3:15 am

TallyMan wrote:
Tequila wrote:
I bet the poor friend was livid with her.


Quite! :lol: IMO it is always better to be polite and helpful with the police. If people try to be difficult with them, the cops tend to be difficult back.


Perfectly reasonable. Some people are a bit too aggresive to the police. And considering the type of people the police have to deal with I can understand it when they react like this.

Besides, its better than no police.


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Dox47
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15 Feb 2013, 5:17 am

Aggression towards the police is something best left to your lawyer, along with talking to them about anything more serious than a traffic stop.


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