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briankelley
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31 Mar 2013, 2:00 am

I read people talking about stemming here. But I think some of these people have never been around more severely autistic people to know what true stemming is. The schools I was in had many severely autistic kids. And their stemming wasn't anything along the lines of twirling hair or similar nervous habits some Asperger folks are calling stemming.

Here's a beautiful video of someone I knew on alt.support.autism, who has severe autism, showing us what true autistic stemming looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc

She also shows us though a voice machine (like Stephen Hawking's) in the video, that people with severe autism can express themselves quite eloquently and articulately.

And here's some of her textual contributions to the newsgroup, alt.support.autism (user name, sggaB):
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile ... ccej3woxEQ

This is what autism sounds like when Autism Speaks.



Last edited by briankelley on 31 Mar 2013, 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

goldfish21
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31 Mar 2013, 2:17 am

To me, a lot of what gets called stimming on the forums sounds like physical (vs verbal ie excessive talking) hyperctivities of ADHD. Tapping, fidgeting etc.


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31 Mar 2013, 2:32 am

I have never clearly understood what stimming is. I know it's mentioned in many threads by many people. From what I read in those threads, it doesn't sound very abnormal. I believe what the OP is saying. There must be more noticeable "stimming" in more severely autistic people. I wonder if stimming is the same as tic disorder. I remember when I was at primary school, there was a girl who had tic disorder. She was repeatedly moving her hands in a very strange way very often. I thought that was stimming.

I don't seem to do anything like that though I might be doing something that I don't even notice myself.



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31 Mar 2013, 2:52 am

I thought it was associated with regulation of the nervous system - certain movements and certain areas help with certain issues of regulation depending on which sensory issue you have and whether you need to arouse yourself or calm yourself in different situations.

People on the autism spectrum (and those with ADHD) have issues with regulation of the nervous system to a greater degree than NTs.

I would assume the severity required would affect the severity of the movement...


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undercaffeinated
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31 Mar 2013, 3:09 am

Some of the things people here call stimming may be insignificantly mild, or just somewhat different from what is normally considered a notable stimming behaviour... but there are still two flaws with your argument.

First, you can't see exactly what people are referring to when they mention a behaviour in a post. If someone mentions, say, waving their hands, you don't see how much they wave them, how often they do it, or exactly what kind of motion they mean when they say "waving".

Second, pointing out a more extreme example does not make a less extreme one false.

So although you might be right to some extent, one shouldn't be too quick to imply that all these people are clueless just because their descriptions or their ideas of what "stimming" means don't match your expectations. Not everyone is a hypochondriac... and there doesn't seem to be a really clear, objective definition of what counts as a stim and what's just insignificant oddness.



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31 Mar 2013, 3:25 am

briankelley wrote:
I read people talking about stemming here. But I think some of these people have never been around more severely autistic people to know what true stemming is. The schools I was in had many severely autistic kids. And their stemming wasn't anything along the lines of twirling hair or similar nervous habits some Asperger folks are calling stemming.

Here's a beautiful video of someone I knew on alt.support.autism, who has severe autism, showing us what true autistic stemming looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc

She also shows us though a voice machine (like Stephen Hawking's) in the video, that people with severe autism can express themselves quite eloquently and articulately.

And here's some of her textual contributions to the newsgroup, alt.support.autism (user name, sggaB):
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile ... ccej3woxEQ

This is what autism sounds like when Autism Speaks.


I do several of those. Watching that video was perhaps one of the trigger moments for my realization that I was likely autistic. I am not saying I have the same severity of symptoms she has. Rather, that even though my autism isn't exactly like hers, that does not mean I do not have stims in common with her.

I think that telling people they don't really stim because they don't stim like Amanda is probably not the kind of usage of that video that Amanda herself would support. She has participated in discussions about stimming on this forum and I do not recall her calling people out for having "too mild to be real stims" behaviors.

I ... think undercaffeinated said this better, so I will go with that.



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31 Mar 2013, 3:43 am

yes. I do stiming.



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31 Mar 2013, 3:54 am

Yes, I do think I'm stimming.
Just because other people do it more severely or in more stereotypical ways (hey, I flap and rock too!), doesn't negate mine.

It's like saying "You think you have a bruised leg! Well you don't, because this person's leg is covered in bruises!".


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31 Mar 2013, 4:43 am

briankelley wrote:
I read people talking about stemming here. But I think some of these people have never been around more severely autistic people to know what true stemming is. The schools I was in had many severely autistic kids. And their stemming wasn't anything along the lines of twirling hair or similar nervous habits some Asperger folks are calling stemming.

Here's a beautiful video of someone I knew on alt.support.autism, who has severe autism, showing us what true autistic stemming looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc

She also shows us though a voice machine (like Stephen Hawking's) in the video, that people with severe autism can express themselves quite eloquently and articulately.

And here's some of her textual contributions to the newsgroup, alt.support.autism (user name, sggaB):
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile ... ccej3woxEQ

This is what autism sounds like when Autism Speaks.


Sorry, butt just because I don't look as strange and bizarre as that person, doesn't mean it isn't stimming.

FYI I think I read somewhere she was faking it.



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31 Mar 2013, 4:58 am

briankelley wrote:
Here's a beautiful video of someone I knew on alt.support.autism, who has severe autism, showing us what true autistic stemming looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc


Even if it's not, that does look pretty staged in places.

(BTW it's called stimming, not stemming. It's short for "self-stimulatory" and the clinical name is stereotypies).


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briankelley
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31 Mar 2013, 5:14 am

goldfish21 wrote:
To me, a lot of what gets called stimming on the forums sounds like physical (vs verbal ie excessive talking) hyperctivities of ADHD. Tapping, fidgeting etc.


Exactly. Not that I'd have a problem with anyone shooting me down on that. I do all that sort of stuff, not still for a minute. But I think that's just my hyperactivity. And not all auties stim either. I remember one very autistic kid who was always motionless in class. Sat there like a "bag of potatoes". And I remember wishing I could sit that still.



briankelley
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31 Mar 2013, 5:29 am

jk1 wrote:
I have never clearly understood what stimming is.


Some of the examples I've seen are, constantly moving hands and fingers as if doing sign language. Or twirling hands in a circular motion as if trying to roll something up, all the time. Craning your head and neck, all the time. Slapping yourself all the time, like constantly slapping hands on thighs or back of neck and head. Those are behavior traits I can look back on and figure that's full blown stimming. But I think Amanda in the video explained it best as a sensory establishment kind of thing. A kind of expressiveness. Perhaps more along the lines of someone moving their arms around, imitating an orchestra conductor, when hearing music... rather than a nervous tic.



briankelley
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31 Mar 2013, 5:49 am

whirlingmind wrote:
briankelley wrote:
Here's a beautiful video of someone I knew on alt.support.autism, who has severe autism, showing us what true autistic stemming looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc


Even if it's not, that does look pretty staged in places.


Himm... Yeah I guess it does now that you bring it to may attention.

Quote:
(BTW it's called stimming, not stemming. It's short for "self-stimulatory" and the clinical name is stereotypies).


Thanx. My spell corrector was changing it from stimming to stemming. So, what's stemming then? :D



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31 Mar 2013, 6:12 am

briankelley wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
To me, a lot of what gets called stimming on the forums sounds like physical (vs verbal ie excessive talking) hyperctivities of ADHD. Tapping, fidgeting etc.


Exactly. Not that I'd have a problem with anyone shooting me down on that. I do all that sort of stuff, not still for a minute. But I think that's just my hyperactivity. And not all auties stim either. I remember one very autistic kid who was always motionless in class. Sat there like a "bag of potatoes". And I remember wishing I could sit that still.


Agreed. I do need to move without stop (that can be very annoying when you're trying to sleep at night). But that's just ADHD.


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31 Mar 2013, 8:55 am

I've always been somewhat envious of people whose stimming consisted of finger-tapping and twirling their hair.

I have full-body motions that I can only suppress for limited amounts of time.


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31 Mar 2013, 9:09 am

undercaffeinated wrote:
Some of the things people here call stimming may be insignificantly mild, or just somewhat different from what is normally considered a notable stimming behaviour... but there are still two flaws with your argument.

First, you can't see exactly what people are referring to when they mention a behaviour in a post. If someone mentions, say, waving their hands, you don't see how much they wave them, how often they do it, or exactly what kind of motion they mean when they say "waving".

Second, pointing out a more extreme example does not make a less extreme one false.

So although you might be right to some extent, one shouldn't be too quick to imply that all these people are clueless just because their descriptions or their ideas of what "stimming" means don't match your expectations. Not everyone is a hypochondriac... and there doesn't seem to be a really clear, objective definition of what counts as a stim and what's just insignificant oddness.


I had to go to Wikipedia to find what stimming meant in my language. I agree about one example doesn't dispel other examples. I have Stereotypies and I am not hyperactive. They are not severe but they can be noticed by others sometimes.