"You're Messed Up and Nobody Likes You"

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This has been, pretty much, the guiding principle of my life. It wasn't articulated until I was about 18, but I don't ever remember a time when it wasn't present in my mind.

By the time I got to kindergarten, I had already learned that the best thing for me to do was do whatever I was told; if I had no instructions, I was to be as silent and still-- as invisible-- as possible. I remember wanting to play with other children and choosing to remain in my seat drawing pictures or reading a book instead. There were no specific instructions for playing with other kids other than "go along with whatever they want;" that usually entailed being victimized and often involved being instructed to do something against the rules or something I perceived to be morally wrong (like picking on someone with even less status than me), so I just didn't do it.

There were occasional lapses-- someone would ask my opinion and I would give it, or I would ask a question without carefully thinking about how it shoud be worded. I had a hard time not getting upset if I made mistakes-- occasionally forgetting an assignment or not understanding directions. I always tried to work it out on my own-- most of the time I was successful, but if I had to ask for help there were guaranteed to be problems. Sometimes I would try to mimic the other children's behaviors; that usually led to problems.

Mostly, I remembered that I was a f**kup and a freak and tried to keep a low profile-- pretending not to know answers even if I did, avoiding being called on, not attempting to talk to anyone or join in group work...

...and I didn't have many problems, other than a wistful sort of sadness.

Trouble came when I started telling myself I was as good as anyone else, had as much right to a life and a voice. Other than the times I've tried to force myself back into silent compliance-- which, having had a taste of something else and having seen other people effectively live their lives, I very much resent-- life has been nothing but trouble ever since.

At this point, I very much regret having tried to live, to love and to like myself. I feel that the worst mistakes of my life have been seeking out a mate and marrying, making friends and nurturing relationships with family, and having children.

I have a conflict-- my therapist tells me that my conflicts and concerns are those of normal people, things everyone deals with. When I ask for help with AS issues-- organization, time management, polite social interaction, communication within my marriage, conforming to social norms-- she tells me I am doing really very well life-wise for a neurotypical and that she does not even see me as autistic. She seems to treat non-conformity to social norms-- such as my choice to be a stay-at-home parent in a culture where the vast majority of people are very competitive and career-oriented-- as matters of personal preference and valid choices. I think this should be the case, but the reality of my day-to-day interactions is that non-conformity is simply not acceptable.

When I ask how to force myself to comply with a lifestyle I don't agree with and be-- or at least act-- happy while I do it, she asks why I feel this is necessary. From there, we proceed to rehash my low self-esteem and depression as if those things are the problem. They are not the problem. The problem is that I am an incorrigible square peg; without accepting the "You are messed up and no one likes you" party line, I tend to do things my own way (usually supported by research), to like myself while I do it, and to forget that that is not OK.

I think of Temple Grandin's statement that "Aspies from my generation fared better." I tend to believe that that is true, and that they did so for two reasons: 1) They were never taught that they were disabled and could not do this and that, and 2) They never got this warm fuzzy "I'm OK, you're OK" nonsense (however sound it may be in theory, in practice it's nonsense) that's been so popular since the hippie movement. They were taught-- however slowly, arduously, and painfully-- how "normal" people act and that they must conform to this standard at any price; they might have learned that conformity later than typical individuals, but they learned.

I notice that, when I treat my children with nurturing and acceptance, our home is happy but the outside perception of their behavior gets progressively worse. OTOH, when I treat them with punishment and rejection, our home is a miserable place but they seem to be better received in school and by family.

So my question to the community is this: How do you go about your days?? What thoughts do you keep uppermost in your mind-- That you are a good and deserving person with as much right to decent treatment and a voice (at least as long as you are not using foul, threatening, or abusive language or putting anyone else down) as the next guy?? Or that you are messed up and no one likes you-- that, in effect, you must work harder, take more crap, and be less visible than everyone else if you want to survive??

I guess I am primarily asking this of the "successful" ones among us-- those who have stable jobs and/or happy spouses and/or normal-seeming children. But really, it's open to everyone.

Has self-hate helped you, or hurt you?? Has self-acceptance helped you, or hurt you??

I was actually the opposite. I acted out and did bratty behavior if I didn't have any rules and didn't know any. I did things to see what was okay and not okay. Kids always thought I was mean and reject me or tell me to go home and get mad at me because I wasn't kept to myself and silent. I just joined in and did what they were doing I wanted to do. I always got in trouble at school for being like the other kids because I didn't know where the lines were drawn for certain behaviors and I didn't know how I was supposed to act despite the rules because kids didn't follow them and my school sure didn't try to help me there. Instead they were probably trying to get rid of the issue by picking apart my behavior and making a big deal out of things I do and punishing me for it and all it did was told me how different I was and being treated as such and it was okay for other kids to be that way and not me. So I did it even more rebelling trying to be treated like everyone else and arguing with the staff about it and teachers. They knew I had problems and they didn't seem to care.


I think life was easier in ways for aspies. Education wasn't required so you didn't have to finish school and it was very common for people to never have gone to junior high or high school and they were still successful adults. Lot of places didn't require a college education or work experience and it was a lot easier to get a job back then I've read. I think I may have been okay in the days and work was more concrete then so the work would have been easier for me and I wouldn't have been seen as learning disabled or having a disability. I may have still be seen as different but not as having a disability. My life may have been easier back in the days but because of my early history, I may have been institutionalized and not end up being a "normal" adult unless my parents kept me out of one and just kept me home. It's obvious not all parents did it or else Helen Keller would have been in one as a child and Temple Grandin.


When I did started to tell myself I was normal and like everyone else and it happens to everybody, I started to feel good about myself. I also think other people are just narrow minded and not nice people so if they wish to treat me bad, I won't bother interacting with them. There are not nice people in the world and it's part of life so I got used to it and ignore it. Life is too short to let them bother me. But I am not surrounded by lot of closed minded jerks. I am kept to myself and everyone leaves me alone and minds their business. Occasionally I may run into someone who is treating me different. I did back in January and it was a realtor that did it to me. Mom and I were checking out a home for my brother and his girlfriend and the lady there seemed to be treating me like how kids treated me when I was in school and I thought it was all in my head and I was being paranoid so I ignored it. Then I over heard my mom talking to my dad that evening and she said she didn't like how that person treated me and she didn't like her and she was a weird lady and she isn't buying from her. I think she has never grown up so she was still stuck in high school.

Self hate helped me build massive multi-layered walls around myself, so it helped keep me safe. I could act like I didn't care about anybody much at all, because I didn't. at least not in the way that was expected of me. So it made a good barrier to be copying what was shown to me, which was that I was un-likable for a lot of reasons. Self hate kept my expectations good and low, so it kept me safe from even more failures than I have experienced anyway. (Quotes from my parents, "you've failed at everything you've done.""You are killing your mother.") self hate also hurt me, as my image of my physical body was very low even when I was young, & sort of, attractive. probably could've used that advantage somehow, if I could've figured out how. All i know is that people seemed to hate me because - in the distant past - i was attractive, as well as victimize me, which I didn't have the proper resources to deal with. that made me hate myself even more. My self hate was reinforced whenever I couldn't figure out how to please or how to disappear into the woodwork, so to speak.
Self acceptance is helping me now, I think, as I am just beginning to learn it at my age. I'm not sure of the outcome because I haven't grasped it completely. it is difficult, I am creating a mixture of what parts to leave as is, and what parts to accept, to allow to be without censure. As to behaviors or beliefs of mine that bother my kids, I am trying to tell them that they're going to have to put up with them. The behaviors that hurt them, I am still trying to fix or ameliorate. (Interrupting and not allowing them to speak for ex.)

Hehe the title of the topic seems like what I think about myself every day as I go out in the world!

I started out the same way you did: Keep my mouth shut, try to blend in with the wallpaper. And that lasted until I was 24, and I started a new job that literally changed my life. My coworkers there were the first people to ever treat me like I had the right to be anything but wall decoration, and for four years, I absolutely flourished and actually grew into a person. It was the first time that I felt like I had the right to my own opinion and thoughts, the first time in my life I ever had any respect at all. And I grew in my career and finally had some confidence that I could be good at something.

I had to leave that job due to circumstances beyond my control, but I take that with me now. I know I am just as good as anyone else and entitled to my own opinion and life. And When I have to fight for it, I'm ok with that because before I never even had anything worth fighting for. I was nothing before, now I am someone I like, and that is more important. I don't care to fight or defend myself, because I'm worth fighting for.

Yep this is pretty much me!

I think it's much easier to just follow commands, at least as well as you can. If someone has a problem with it, you can just say you are following orders from superiors, or your superiors can defend your actions. I am the same about interaction. Sometimes I want to do it, but I don't want to mess up because it's a one and done kind of deal. Once you screw it up, there's no fixing it, so I opt for the safe alternative, to just go back to doing something or come up with something to do instead.


It's weird to answer this because it's a mix of both. I am very self deprecating, which motivates me to set the bar higher when it comes to work, because it's never good enough for me. I accept that I'm a weirdo, it's not like that can really be changed.

the problem is that when you try to do something intelligent people immediately tend to think that you are trying to be better than them, to take control of not only your own life but also theirs. they do not understand that you can contribute invaluably and intelligently WHILE accepting your role as a follower -- not everyone can be leaders after all, but that does not mean that everyone who is not leading should not be allowed to make contributions toward a good leadership. you need to find a good leader -- a good boss or friend or whatever -- who can give you instruction while also considering your input -- because you ARE valuable. everyone has something to add.

your post really got to me...my dad used to tell me that I was messed up in the head & have no friends...and people always told me I was stupid, dumb, ditz, space cadet...and what is sad is that it never ended. I try to be positive but then I go out in the world & I get defeated. I read these books telling me, "you're not dumb, you just have autism"...but the world doesn't care about that. They just see a girl that has no memory, can't multitask, can't follow a conversation, is weird & awkward & always in her own world & never says the right thing.

Last edited by elleannt on 21 Apr 2013, 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do not think this is true. I do not know why people here latch onto the idea that not telling someone they're disabled somehow makes them more capable of doing things. Maybe it's true for some, but not for all. I would argue that such an assertion is pretty much the same kind of nonsense you're castigating "I'm OK, you're OK" for being.

I wouldn't hang any theorizing on it. Dr. Grandin's theory involves the notion that rigorous discipline is why higher functioning autistic people did better in the 50s, although I think she generalizes that from her own experiences and it may not actually be accurate beyond those experiences.

I know how you feel. In the end damaged people like us have no place in this world.

It's a choice. It comes down to whether the good opinions of the people in question are more important than your happiness and that of your family. You mentioned "survival" - yes, sure, completely alienating everyone around you can cause you to end up unemployed, homeless, and with your kids in foster care, but that's an extreme scenario and the fact that your kid's best friend's mom thinks you're a flake (for instance) isn't that serious a matter.

When I was a kid I had a huge ego and would stand up to anybody. When I started middle school, though, I was so ostracized I ended up internalizing the bullies' hatred and became a very self-destructive, depressed and paranoid person. I didn't emerge from that until 25, and by then I'd managed to screw my life up good and proper by dropping out of school and marrying a sociopath. Since then I have been slowly putting things back together. Sometimes I slip back into self-loathing when I run into a setback, but overall I have chosen to reject that mindset. When it comes to pleasing others and conforming, well, it is impossible to please them all and beyond doing the minimum to stay out of trouble I refuse to worry about it. I managed to find a small circle of people who accept me as I am, and that's enough for me. There will always be someone, somewhere, who thinks you're trash/crazy/etc., and sanity is recognizing when you do and when you don't need to care.

I used to be terribly anxious all throughout elementary school, because every time I tried to do things without instructions to go by, I'd do something stupid that would get me in trouble, and I was (and am) terrified of authority, so I learned quickly to just not do anything in school unless someone specifically told me to. I think this is where most of my rigidity regarding rules comes from; I still act a little like this in college, but because there's more flexibility, I usually use unstructured time to get away and be alone, where there's no one around to judge me or tell me I'm doing something wrong. I never really hated myself throughout my childhood, but looking back on it and the way I behaved, I do feel a little ashamed of the person I was, ignorant and self-absorbed and cowardly, still too much of the latter to make transitions -- even minor ones -- comfortable. It's not all the AS, I had a lot of crappy things happen to me when I was young that probably contributed, but regardless, the result ended up being a person who, when I look back on it, wasn't doing very well, even if I didn't realise it at the time.

I feel the same, too. Although I have accepted how I am, others don't accept me. It affects me in a practical way - for example, I don't get the promotion at work because I'm disliked. In this way, my quality of life is reduced, not just emotionally, but also financially etc.

yes & it seems no matter how hard you try to be nice or less weird people end up hating you anyway....Got to be positive though..so glad I found this site...I finally found a place where people really seem to understand everything I'm thinking & feeling its great..

Last edited by elleannt on 21 Apr 2013, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, finding this site is probably one of the best things that have happened in many years.