How to change?

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Here the facts:
I have a work and a university degree and get my stuff done. I like to eat alone at lunch time. I prefer to be alone or with animals. I have hobbies and things I like to do, best alone. I m most calm when I m alone. I dont want to live alone but I cant handle too much interpersonal stress without becoming an as*hole and pushing people away.

I am married since 2 years to a woman of my age which Borderline Personality Disorder. We live together.
I am scoring very high on the Aspie score and very low on NT (below 30). I was never diagnosed with Asperger or anything. After a test which my wife gave to me regarding how good I m at reading people I found out about Asperger and every single online test I did so far gave strong Asperger tendency as a result. I m also passive aggressive to a strong degree. When I told my mother about it she said that everybody has something nowadays and that she did her best. My wife is not happy about my finding, since I often talk about myself instead of talking with her about topics that are important for her.

Problem:
My wife has troubles to deal with her disorder. But without me, she is fine. She says that I trigger bad emotions in her. That is also true. When she says things, that are not nice or insulting towards me, I can sometimes not shut up but have to make my point. Although I know that it would be better to not say a word. And my wife says that a normal person would not act as stupid and childish as I do. I agree with her.

For example, when I m upset because of something that I did not like at work and I would like to keep it to myself, this ends in a terrible fight. I just cant share these things because when I would, it would be too much for my wife and she would just say that I m only thinking and talking about my own issues. And it is true, I am very selfinvolved. More than any sane person is, that is for sure.

Solution?
My wife says I should also seek theraphy, like she did for her disorder, for my issues. I m also fine with doing that.

However, I am scared that I cant control my behaviour. When I m upset I m not physically violent. But altogether, what I say and how I act, often only one sentence, can trigger very bad episodes for my wife. When a topic is started, I can never answer with just one sentence but have to discuss everything for ages. I always have a very strong opinion and think that I am objective. I am very condescending and tell people what to do, when they imply that they want to know, of course that is never appropriate. I have episodes where I have to do certain things, and when people stop me doing it I cant do anything else until I did what I had to do. Since I m rather passive, it can take hours and hours that I just wait until I can do what I wanted to do without telling anybody what I really want, since I m also totally paranoid about it.

Do you guys also have passive aggressive issues connected with your Asperger? Or is it only me? I usually thought for years and years that I m just an as*hole. Sayin I have Asperger sounds a lot nicer. But I still think it s simply an easy excuse, oh yeah

*talkingwithmyself*
"I have an issue..."
"No u dont... U are simply an as*hole..."

I just want to know how to become a superficially more social person, so people around me dont get negatively affected by how I am all the time. Yes superficially, I doubt I will every be able to *feel* more in that way. I also dont want to. I m happy the way I feel now finally. I just want to appear more acceptable to other people not be like those feeling-driven idiots.

In a sense, I d rather be alone instead of makin other people miserable. From starting every second sentence with I, you can see how self-centered I am, but I do not want to be that way. But I am that way.

Delete or submit? Whatever...

To change you need to want change to happen.

If you have chosen to share your life with someone then you should attempt to find a better balance, as what you are giving does not seem to be enough of the right thing at this point in time.

Try therapy, if it's not working or you don't like it, try another option.

Personally I don't see the point in being superficially sociable, I either do it to enjoy it and gain from it or I don't bother.

Good luck.

My sympathies as this happens to me too. I cannot seem to be a good friend, just a listener. I listen when the person is new or when in a group. But once I feel comfortable with a person I usually talk at them instead of with them. I don't give useful advice when they only want someone that supports them in making their own decision.

I will of course go for the therapy.

Some days ago I was standing in a group of people to buy some food in a fast food restaurant. Since it was evening people were rather young. Some were drunk. Some hitting on some girls. Some yelling around and showing off. I didnt feel well but rather as if the whole situation was dangerous. I think that I know how people feel, but I dont. I only see what they do but I dont know what it means. Is the girl that a guy is hitting on happy about it or only annoyed?! Will the guy behind me that bumped in me 2 times soon try to start a fight or not?! I was sure that nobody really wanted to be there, because who in the world would want to be in such an annoying situation in a fast food restaurant...

Another problem:
When I feel good and everybody around me feels sad I can become more sad. But I also have issues when I feel bad but around me people are happy. Then, I tend to wreck the whole situation so that it fits my feelings. I dont do that in an obvious way. So most people wont realize it that easily, but I m doing it...

@Stalk I cant give useful advice, because I dont even understand how somebody feels and what their exact problem is. I understand logical problems but not problems that involve a lot of feelings. In a sense, my way of thinking about topics is "special" or unconventional. That sounds great. To be and think different. But the problem is that I m no use for people.

I do understand your situation, I have become completely exclusive/reclusive in the last few years, I do not have friends and situations dealing with other people are stressful. Especially other people in my personal space as at the fast food place.

The problem can be that the more time someone spends on their own the less accepting they are of others and their actions.

You do sound depressed about this situation, that's a good reason to change. Do you feel this yourself and if so, are you seeking any treatment?

Personally I try to make a special effort regarding my partner, we have been together 9 years. It's not easy but she has stuck with me through some rough times and supports me, I try to do the same for her because she deserves it.

She lives for her work and I try to help whenever there are problems even though it is not interesting for me. It feels good to help her. If it's something that I can not offer an opinion on then I say so.

When I go to work it is to get paid and I do not want to discuss this when I get home. Work stops at work, my partner finds this hard to understand.

If you have had a bad day and your wife is concerned then it sounds like she is trying to help and support you.

There must have been good reasons for you to get married, try to remember what these are and focus on this. Have fun together, life is short.

It's good that you are trying to find a solution.

Trying to get better social skills so you can avoid unintentionally upsetting someone with BPD is probably a futile effort. Even NTs feel that they are 'walking on eggshells' relating to a BPD person. It's the nature of BPD to feel paranoid about signs of possible rejection and to overreact and misinterpret cues that might indicate rejection.

BPD is fundamentally a disorder of attachment. The person feels a strong need to form an attachment bond, but is terrified of losing their attachment figure (usually due to childhood trauma). You mention that she's fine when she's relating to other people besides you - do any of those people have nearly as close a bond to her as you do? BPDs are usually more volatile towards their romantic partner (even when the partner is NT) because they feel a bond with that person and are afraid of losing that bond. Interactions with someone that they're not very close to are less 'high stakes' and therefore don't provoke as much emotion.

@neilson_wheels I m not really depressed. I accepted how I am and it s ok for me. I dont need to go out and have tons of friends. It s not necessary for me. But my wife needs somebody that acts the right way towards her, otherwise her Borderline thinking gets triggered and she cycles into a world of pain. I dont want to be the cause for that. She needs somebody that focuses on her needs and doesnt have issues himself. I want to be that person. That I might not be able to do that is what worries me the most.

@Ettina That is another big concern. To do everything including treatment of myself and still not being able to not upset her. And yes, of course she has none of these issues with anybody else, since she has no close relationship with anybody else but me. So far every relationship she had ended at the typical point where BPD-relationships end. I even think that somebody who is good at reading emotions of other people could never live together with a BPD. It would be just too tough and too much of a up and down rollercoaster ride.

I will do my best. But with a Borderline-having significant other you have in one moment somebody that wants to throw your whole relationship away. And some hours later, everything is at if it never happened and you are supposed to be totally loving and caring towards that person again. It s not easy for me and I hope that, with more interpersonal skills, I will be a bit better at doing this.

I have to admit that I know very little about BPD and it's interesting to read what Ettina has written.

My partner can be volatile, she is definitely not a "typical" person, but I do wonder how much my behaviour influences hers?

There is obviously a lot of pressure on each of you, without friends, family or associates able to absorb stress or offer advice.

You said your wife has had therapy. Was this while you were together and did you see the results?

Is she still seeking treatment for her BPD?

Is all of the onus on you to change?

Well she had and still has therapy. She is not on meds anymore. Meds are anyway only a short-time solution.

It s more like, she has some issues, but it cant all be her fault. It also has to be me that has a problem. So we both have to change and it lessens the gravity of her issues... That is fine for me. I m sick and asozial. No problem.

However, if I would say that to her that I m fine, she would say that I m in denial, that I have serious passive aggressive behaviour problems and that we cant stay together if I, her husband, dont change. And yes, I am passive aggressive. But I do know that I am and with some simple rules of thinking it s relatively easy to control... Also, when I say something wrong I usually realize after and apologize. She simply doesnt accept my apologies...

The problem with BPD is that they can make you believe that you are absolutely insane, that you are doing everything wrong and that they are absolutely fine. Since their interpersonal skills are simply amazing, especially from an Asperger point of view, they can convince everybody around, including you, that they do everything correct and you are the crazy one. She can attack me in front of others and it s no problem. But god beware, I d ever do anything close to what she does...

At the moment she has herself under control to a high degree. We managed to get her into a better social network, although it s still very superficial. She is clever and able to deal with herself most of the time. Apart from the days on which I trigger her Borderline symptoms. Then, everything falls apart in minutes. It s as if you are sitting in your car, driving against another car and realizing no matter what you will do, there will be a severe accident and nothing that you do will stop it. You are not paralized, but you just know that you can try to turn the wheel in any direction, use handbreak or whatever, nothing will stop this accident from happening.

And afterwards of course it s all my fault. My incapability to understand the problem at hand. It doesnt matter if I m just working, or doing something completely different and it s obvious that I dont have the time to talk with her in that moment. It has to be solved in that instant. I tried to propose that we have a signal and then after 15 minutes or so we talk. So I can prepare. But that s not possible for her. Thus, it happens that I say 1 sentence which is inadequate that will end in a discuss of 2 hours (before her therapy it was 2 days). The fuckd up thing is that she wakes up one day and I m a hero and the next day i m satan, for her.

There were times when I even tested what happens when I behave like an as*hole on a good day... I was still the best person in the world... It s simply incredible and very difficult to understand without havin experienced it. So I dont know if my explanations can be of any use for you.

I have to admit that I didn't know much about BDP, but according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline ... y_disorder manipulation is a part of their disorder, that said, wikipedia says this:

I really don't think I can offer you any advice on this. Personally I would need to remove myself from the situation and pursue my own interests. This is no help to you.

It sounds like you are making a good effort to deal with this and offer reasonable alternatives, like the time out signal.

Can I suggest you re-post this with a more descriptive title including BPD, you might receive better advice from others on here.

Good luck, I hope you find a solution soon.

We went to couple therapy but had to stop, since my wife did not like to hear me speak with the counselor. She became paranoid about it and it was not helping her at all, she said.

I disagree with the part in the wikipedia-article where they say that more knowledge of BPD made family members feel worse. That s definitely not the case for me. I m not more hostile or more burdened. However, in the beginning, when I found out, I mirrored my wife's behaviour a lot to protect myself. But in those times her behaviour was beyond extreme. No, knowledge is bliss in this case. And the comma in the previous sentence is at the correct position.

It s difficult for me to see if I do make enough of an effort or not. There is no rule-book for this.

I might start a new thread one of the next days on the topic. For now, I just needed to write these things and I m glad that I got some comments. I ll anyway ask then a psychiatrist for advice as well. They get paid for it, so I hope they have an idea of what to do. In fact, the couple therapy was very useful in my opinion. But you need two people that want to do it for that.

At the couple therapy what was the problem? Did she not like to hear what you thought of her?

I agree, you need as much knowledge as possible to make informed decisions.

I feel there is a tendency for asperger types to do lots of research and use the information. The article probably refers to a more typical reaction, denial that the person cannot control their thoughts and responses.

It's obvious that you do want to change the situation so any efforts are better than none. There are only two people who have a valid opinion on whether those efforts are enough, trouble is you are both a bit biased by nature.

Please continue to write if you want to, better out than in.

I feel out of my depth with BPD.

BPD is something very, very difficult and stressful to deal with on a long term basis, even for an NT. If you are AS, you may be stressing her out, but she will be stressing you out just as much.

BPD does have triggers - however the probability that you are the *only* trigger, every single time, is incredibly unlikely.
Even if you were not there, she would not be "fine". She would still have BPD.
The difference is, if she were alone, you would not be the *last* trigger - she would have something else triggering her last before it sets off the BPD.
She is treating the last trigger as if it is the *only* one - and it's not.

A massive step forward here would be getting your wife to start to realize and list, all of her different triggers. For example, she may have had 6 triggers that day already, but by you coming home and refusing to speak about work - that may be the 7th that sets off the next cycle of BPD. If you get her to be aware of, realize, and take into account the other 6 - so she can eventually avoid them whenever possible, it will mean she will be able to handle you coming home as the 3rd trigger easily, because she is nowhere near her limit. The trick with BPD is managing their energy, triggers and limits.

Obviously you still need to attempt to take her into account, even if when you come home, you say to her "I had a bad day at work, but I do not wish to speak about it tonight. I am not angry at you, so please do not take my mood as an indication that I am." Spend 15 minutes with her being nice to her before slipping away to do your own thing.

In a relationship where two partners have their own conditions, preventive management is your best hope.

Yeah, the trigger explanation hits the nail on the head.

Removing the triggers is a major part of her treatment. She is also in a class for behavioural change. But it s very difficult.

Sometimes she feels bad and she doesnt know what to do. Whatever I propose, is not adequate for her. Since we are so close, I sometimes get a glimpse of how she feels. It s livin hell. Which is why I am sometimes angry with her, but I know that it s not her but it s the disorder that makes her say and feel certain extreme negative feelings towards me.

When I come home, there are days that she does not want to speak with me, since she is doing something. Then I shouldnt disturb her. Then, there are days when I have to talk with her. But as weird as it sounds, I usually want to talk about work with her but I had to learn that she doesnt want to hear about my work. That might be connected with the fact that she is not working at the moment and she feels worse when she has to realize that I work and she doesnt... So if I talk with her, I try to hit a topic that she might care about.

Sometimes, she suddently wants to spend time with me and then I should be available... That can be quite tough for me at times. But since she accepted the disorder and she got diagnosed, everything is a lot better for me. But only for me, not for her. That s the worst.

I just think that me being better at emotional things and interpersonal stuff would help. But then, you cant buy a can of that in the supermarket but you have to learn it. I ll have to learn it.

Nice post.