Avoidance of people outside of required structured contacts

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beneficii
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25 May 2013, 10:59 pm

I've noticed this. With the exceptions of my parents, I have a strong urge to avoid interactions with people outside of necessary, structured interactions (like at work or going to the bank or whatever). I can usually get out of it, as I have good social skills, but I do wonder, why? I don't feel particularly nervous, but it's like I just prefer to be alone. Is this social anhedonia, I suppose?

Does anyone else have this?



redrobin62
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25 May 2013, 11:38 pm

I have Avoidant Personality Disorder (AvPD) which it seems you're kind of describing. Here's the definition.

In avoidant personality disorder the person has a lifelong pattern of feeling very shy, inadequate, and sensitive to rejection. Individuals with this disorder form relationships with others only if they believe they will not be rejected. Loss and rejection are so painful that these individuals choose to be lonely rather than risk trying to connect with others. Social phobia and avoidant personality disorder have similar symptoms, genetics, and treatment response. Thus avoidant personality disorder is merely a more severe form of social phobia. Often individuals with this disorder may develop substance abuse or depression. This is a very common disorder; yet there is surprisingly little research on the effectiveness of its treatment. Effective Therapies: Thus far, only cognitive behavioral therapy (social skills training and exposure) and group therapy have been shown to be partially effective.



beneficii
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26 May 2013, 12:43 am

Only thing is: I'm not really that afraid of rejection. I do this even with very kind people. I think that I have a lot of social anhedonia as opposed to social phobia, though I do have some of the latter as well. As time goes on, I'm finding that I'm actually quite content with little to no social interaction, beyond that to obtain immediate gain or to prevent loss, such as going to work, making necessary phone calls, etc. I've noticed, though, if it's the kinda gain where you'd have to network with a bunch of people over a long period of time or interact with a single person over a long period of time to get at the possibility of getting it, I begin to wonder if it's really worth the time spent. I'd rather spend that time doing solitary activities that provide immediate reward. Of course, I will still spend time with family.

I also have no problems with things like public speaking. Even if I'm nervous, I can just get up and do it.

I think that instead of avoidant, I'm more schizoid/schizotypal, and in fact at age 14, in addition to the Asperger's syndrome diagnosis, I was diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder.



redrobin62
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26 May 2013, 1:20 am

I had to look up social anhedonia because I'd never heard of it till now.

Social anhedonia is defined as a trait-like disinterest in social contact and is characterized by social withdrawal and decreased pleasure in social situations. This characteristic typically manifests as an indifference to other people.[15] In contrast to introversion, a nonpathological dimension of human personality, social anhedonia represents a deficit in the ability to experience pleasure.[16] Additionally, social anhedonia differs from social anxiety in that social anhedonia is predominantly typified by diminished positive affect, while social anxiety is distinguished by both decreased positive affect and exaggerated negative affect.[17] This trait is current seen as a central characteristic to, as well as a predictor of, schizophrenia-spectrum disorders.[18]

Signs/Symptoms
Decreased ability to experience interpersonal pleasure
Social withdrawal/isolation
Decreased need for social contact
Lack of close friends and intimate relationships, and decreased quality of those relationships
Poor social adjustment
Decreased positive affect
Flat affect
Depressed mood
State-related anxiety[19][20]

Social anhedonia is trait-related, meaning it remains stable throughout life, independent of diagnosis, treatment, or symptom remission [21]



foxfield
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26 May 2013, 1:29 am

I have this.

I think its a consequence of not being able to connect with people.



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26 May 2013, 2:30 am

I never have seen the reason to socialize with anyone outside of structured activities and / or common interests. Of course, it's been said my social skills are poor.


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26 May 2013, 2:33 am

Sure.

Though I don't call it avoidance, as that implies it's a conscious decision. It's my "natural state". Just as it's the natural state for others to seek out people.



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26 May 2013, 4:42 am

beneficii wrote:
I've noticed this. With the exceptions of my parents, I have a strong urge to avoid interactions with people outside of necessary, structured interactions (like at work or going to the bank or whatever). I can usually get out of it, as I have good social skills, but I do wonder, why? I don't feel particularly nervous, but it's like I just prefer to be alone. Is this social anhedonia, I suppose?

Does anyone else have this?


I'm the same way. I mostly just interact with my mother who I live with. If I go out it's never to socialize and I usually don't talk to people unless they approach me and I have to. I go out for things like going to the doctor or buying something from a store.

I'm not diagnosed but I think if I don't have aspergers they might diagnose me as schizoid or maybe avoidant depending on how they interpret it.



beneficii
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26 May 2013, 12:12 pm

This would explain why, with several opportunities and support to get out of my shell provided by my parents, sister, and other helpers, I always ended up staying in. With the exception of one or two friends at a time that lasted longer (and with whom I mostly did things like play video games, though we did also discuss favorite topics), I often ended up stopping going after a few times. Basically, I didn't persist. Within the last few years, however, I have lost even those friends, as I started to get burned out quickly with those favorite topics and we didn't really play video games very much. I've had aborted attempts to make friends, but overall while interacting I find myself feeling impatient with the conversation and thinking about all the (solitary) things I would be able to do once the conversation ended. It seems to have become worse and more rooted in the past couple years.



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26 May 2013, 12:33 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
I have Avoidant Personality Disorder (AvPD) which it seems you're kind of describing. Here's the definition.

In avoidant personality disorder the person has a lifelong pattern of feeling very shy, inadequate, and sensitive to rejection. Individuals with this disorder form relationships with others only if they believe they will not be rejected. Loss and rejection are so painful that these individuals choose to be lonely rather than risk trying to connect with others. Social phobia and avoidant personality disorder have similar symptoms, genetics, and treatment response. Thus avoidant personality disorder is merely a more severe form of social phobia. Often individuals with this disorder may develop substance abuse or depression. This is a very common disorder; yet there is surprisingly little research on the effectiveness of its treatment. Effective Therapies: Thus far, only cognitive behavioral therapy (social skills training and exposure) and group therapy have been shown to be partially effective.


OK, looks like I have APD aswell as social phobia, because that couldn't describe me better. :D

I am a cleaner at a care home for old people, and I do love the residents, they are innocent and are generally passed all the competitive behaviour and the judging of others, and they look up to me (and the other workers there), like small children and animals do. But I avoid cleaning their rooms if they are in them, and to be able to do this easily, I form a schedule in my head, knowing what rooms to do first and what rooms to do last. Most sit in the lounge, but not all of them are socialisers, so some prefer to sit in their rooms. So the ones who I know sit in their rooms most of the time, I clean their rooms while they're in the dining-hall having breakfast or lunch.

I always feel guilty doing this, but again it's nothing to do with the residents personally. I just find I can get their rooms done more successfully when they are not in their rooms. I just feel that sometimes they watch you when you're cleaning in their room, and you don't like to move their stuff (some of them don't like you moving their stuff), and I know they're not actually judging how I do my work but it's how I feel irrationally. Plus a lot of them are deaf, and I don't like raising my voice when talking to them. I just feel timid all the time.

Could that be part of APD?


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26 May 2013, 12:59 pm

It is hard to interact with people when it is not structured. Sitting across from someone, and the whole thing is kept afloat through words, gestures, eye-contact, etc. This would make many of us (with an ASD) nervous! At least if you're at a bank or in some other structured interaction, it's scripted. There is a backbone to fall back on. Whereas when it is just people milling about...ugh. It all depends on how well you conduct yourself socially.

BTW, it is curious that many NTs seem to prefer the unstructured social interaction, but I personally find it exhausting, draining and mystifying.... 8O



beneficii
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26 May 2013, 1:25 pm

I think too that there might be some avoidance. One thing is that I'm very secretive and I'm afraid it would become more apparent through intimate interaction, particularly of the unpredictable kind. Now, my social skills are quite good--as pointed out by my therapists and psychiatrist--and have been since at least adolescence and I'm good at coming up with responses--though I often have to ruminate on conversations in order to get meaning out of them and I often anticipate and rehearse my conversations. My therapist thinks there is a society anxiety component as well as a social anhedonia component.

Now as a kid, according to my records, I often played alone and seemed content with doing so (remarked in kindergarten and 3rd and 5th grades). Prior to 5th grade, I had flat affect, but by then I was beginning to learn the "importance" of displaying affect. By 3rd grade, I could be polite around adults, etc., though social interaction skills with peers were still poor and my speech would often be tangential; by 5th grade, I was observed to shift from topic to topic in a disjointed manner (observed through age 14), which likely interfered with my ability to socialize successfully. I received a lot of pressure from authority figures (parents and teachers) to interact with my peers and I began to establish my sense of self-worth around the ability to have friends. The pattern was that I would have one close friend at a time and we would do things together. In 7th and 8th grades, I was observed to have inappropriate affect, but by 10th grade that had gone away. After the major psychotic episode at age 14, I made major behavioral improvements; I'm guessing my speech becoming more organized under the high antipsychotic dose contributed a lot to it. I would continue the pattern of having one friend, though now there would often be a 2nd. High school was a time when I wanted to try to throw off my past and just be "normal." I began to judge my self-worth on my ability to have a partner, etc., contributing to anxiety. I received extensive social skills training, took speech and debate and competed in forensics, etc., causing a massive improvement in social skills.

Over the past few years, however, my social interest has really taken a hit. There is still a pattern of professionals and parents pressuring me to socialize more, and my going a few times and then just not going, and pretty much forgetting about it. So, it seems my history of social interactions is complex, but the components of both social anxiety and social anhedonia (and probably just finding the social interactions to be work) seem to be there.



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26 May 2013, 1:40 pm

Aww, yet more psychiatric labels that describe me perfectly? The more of those I have, the less anyone is going to take me seriously! Haha, no, never mind, that's not a concern when there's barely anyone who needs to know I exist in the first place. ^_^;