screen time, discipline...are we doing this wrong? HELP!

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Sorry, this is gonna be long, but I am at a loss....

A little background (this is my first post). Our ten year old son was just diagnosed with Aspergers in January of this year. He is extremely angry about this and struggling with the fact that he feels a failure, unhappy. He hates school with a passion even though he has a very patient teacher who has bent over backwards for him. He has friends at school, but spends no time with them outside of school. He has just started OT and individual skills therapy. He seems to be in a near constant state of meltdown, and the entire family feels that we are walking on eggshells every minute of the day. He won't do anything that we know makes him feel better: go to sleep on time, eat food, walk around the block, etc.

That all said, the only thing that "makes him happy" is playing video games or watching cartoons. For many years we had no TV or video games and very limited computer use because he was so addicted to screen time. When we had it out of the house he would spend many happy hours reading, playing legos or playing outside. We slowly allowed it back in this past year, mostly because he was feeling so left out at school and we considered that social connection important. But now all he wants to do is play computer games. We have tried many different routines (might be part of our trouble) but as of late, he has been earning up to 2.5 hours on the weekends for getting up and going to school. We also tried giving him 30 minutes of apps on the Kindle each day, but he began manipulating the situation to play more, or would scam his brothers' time away from them. When he wasn't playing, he was constantly whining to play, saying it is the only thing that truly makes him happy. We see it as something that soothes him for the time, but makes him want more and more. He becomes very agitated after he plays. I feel like my life revolves around when and how much he can play.

The final straw happened this weekend. He whined non-stop to let him play extra, I stuck to the routine (trying to get better at not giving in, and sticking to the plan!). Apparently he peeked when I was typing in my code, because he snuck the Kindle and managed to charge $35 worth of apps. When caught the next day, he lied for about 15 minutes then finally 'fessed up. He had also had a fit the night before about staying up late to watch cartoons, and thrown a fit because his brother's had a turn to pick the movie and not him. I told him no more Kindle and he would have to pay for the apps (that part he was ok with). He then whined/cried/called me names all day about when he could play again on the iPod or computer. Then, he found where I hid the Kindle and spent another $10! Sunday he was back at it and I said no. He had lied, snuck the Kindle, wasted our money, and swore at me and called me names. I told him he was on a screen break until Friday, and that next weekend we would renegotiate all screen time for the family for the summer. He then spent today, from 7am until 7:30 pm (until he finally fell asleep) having an all-day meltdown. That means he reads a book for 15 minutes, then comes at me swearing, kicking, throwing things, crying, begging. ALL DAY LONG, back and forth. "Just 30 minutes!" "Just 15 minutes" He says I'm torturing him, I have no idea the pain he is in (that I agree with as he is really struggling. But he also tells me things like "Just give in to me Mom, then I'll be quiet and we'll both be happier." He is extremely manipulative.

The thing that gets me is he insists he needs this to be happy. But I see it as a downward spiral that sucks him in. It temporarily calms him, but I know how he is when he is truly happy and the video games don't do for him what swimming, or playing at the park, or snuggling up to watch Doctor Who with me....those are moments I know he feels content and good. But he can't see that.

I'm sorry, this is so long so I'll wrap up. We pose it like this to him:

"Follow the time limits, turn off when asked, no crying or whining to play more=more screen time allowed. Swearing, hurting me or his brothers, constant whining/lying/sneaking/crying about playing =less screen time." But he doesn't get it.

This is how he sees it:
"Screen time makes me happy. Let me play all I want and I'll be nice." (This also could just be expanded into "Let me do anything I want and I'll be nice."

Any advice, ideas, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are still trying to figure out how his mind works, how best to help him. He just says no one can help him, unless they just let him play video games. We love our son dearly and he is an amazing boy. he is usually friendly and outgoing. It kills me to see him get sucked into isolating himself on a screen, and thinking that is all he can do.

He sounds like he is addicted to computer games. Maybe you need to take them away from him entirely, as he can't seem to control himself when it comes to computer games.

I would either let him have as much screen time as he wants, or go the other way and smash every screen in the house. You can never win an argument with him. It is as simple as that. So you either need to totally eliminate the possibility of screen time, or let this stage of his play out by allowing him as much access as he desires.

It would be a shame for his energy to be wasted on games or some such thing, though. Too bad he hasn't been intrigued by a musical instrument, for example. His relentless passion, if applied in the same way he is now applying it to games, could take him far, doing something more productive.

You only gave it back to him after you saw a way it could make you happy, so why is your happiness more important than his?
If you are worried about the games he play, then you give him other games. If he spends your money, then you hide your credit cards better (or the accounts they are bound to). If he still goes to school then spending all his free time playing shouldn't be an issue at all. He's a kid! What do you expect of him? To work in a mine?
You should be more worried about him being unhappy instead of worrying about the things that do make him happy, and maybe you should look up "special interests"...
Also, the fighting would be over if you just gave him his own tablet (or something like it).

Last edited by Anomiel on 27 May 2013, 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PLEASE don't go with a tablet of his own first. Your son clearly could use something to hack. Videogames are addictive because you can repeatedly try and stretch their parameters. Have any I.T. person you know set up Linux on an old PC for him, and for the love of all that is holy, abandon the concept of screen time. As I type this, I'm surrounded by triple monitors, and I study all the code I can. I've had Amazon email me several times interested in hiring me to the Kindle team.*

*I'm a software tester & smartphone nut

Listen to cberg! I was thinking about the app-games, but making a profession out of it is even better There's lots of other computer-related professions too - he could become a video game designer or draw his own cartoons!

Funny story, I'm interviewing with a game development firm in the next few days...

While I don't totally agree with letting him constantly have tablet or computer access, you are probably being too restrictive. My daughter is pretty similar. to be honest, in her case she doesn't connect the action with the consequence because it is too abstract, the same may be true for your son. In our case she sees it thusly: she
"loves" (special interest) my little ponies. Now if I were to tell her if she does x she will get to play the mlp app on my iPad for an hour, but if she doesn't do it she won't she sees it like this: she doesn't want to do x so she des y instead. When I tell her she can't play the app, she doesn't see it as a punishment at all... Instead im a manipulative bully who tried to get her to do something against her will by dangling a treat in front of her and then yanked it a way. Funny thing is, its not really a wrong way to perceive the situation. Think about how you would feel if a friend of yours treated you like this all the time. Suppose they said to you " now, if you would just wash my car for me, we can go to the movies tomorrow. If my car isn't spotless, no movie" that would suck, right? So we have had to strike a happy medium with the obsessions, we reward good behavior, but punishment is limited to quiet time and very temporary removal of an obsession.

Honestly, I agree with the poster who said to give him a Linux box. My husband is a computer programmer and like half those guys he works with have asd, no joke. And that is pretty much how they got there. It's a great career for them really, can work mostly independently with limited teamwork. If you give him a Linux pc there aren't really tons of games to play, but there is still a lot to explore if you get my drift. We gave my daughter a Linux laptop, she is only five and she has figured out some pretty jaw dropping things already, and it's not even really her big thing at the moment.

The problem to me is that your son really does sound addicted. Screens can do that, and I am, myself, prone to it. Limiting time for an addict doesn't really do the trick.

Since he's 10, I think he can be made to understand that while he says it is making him happy, it isn't really. That constant feeling of needing more is not "happy." I've had that conversation with both my kids, and around that age, about various things they were letting control them. I'd spend time running different scenarios with him to see if he can latch onto an understanding that what his behavior indicates is addiction.

When he realizes that, engage him in brainstorming solutions. Kids can really surprise you.

My son learned years ago during the school's "turn off the TV week" that TV actually agitated him. My daughter stayed off computer games entirely for a few years because they frustrated her so much. I recently deleted an app I had purchased because I kept finding myself trying to beat a standard that I just wasn't beating.

It can be difficult to accept that something you started doing because it was fun has taken over your will, but you have to. Those devices and apps are owning him, instead of just being tools he uses.

I think the method for earning "screen time" in this video is brilliant.

She uses this in other areas than what was shown in this video too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOAivs58SOU

It felt to me like the OP was concerned that the further her son gets into the obsession with gaming, the worse his overall functioning is. This has to be an incredibly frustrating feeling for her. My angle to this comes through my kids. My middle child (ADHD, not ASD) craves to the point of it really seeming to be necessary for his mental health to be around other people a lot. The problem is that the more he is around his friends, the worse he treats his family (and his friends are good kids not disrespectful hooligans). It is a constant balancing act to get him enough time out of the house and socializing versus our need to be able to tolerate him and not have him tormenting his brothers or refusing to participate in any chore or family activity at all when he is home.

To the OP, I really have no good advice here. Besides the mouthy middle child, I have an almost 5 year old obsessed with electronics, and yes, I know exactly what you mean when you say that it seems to sooth him at first, but then as he builds into it more it makes him miserable. If he gets too much time focused in on the computer, then he is much more likely to meltdown or display other less functional behaviors. Half the posts I have made about him giving me trouble was preceded by too much time on the computer. He would gladly spend all day on the computer to the point of refusing to eat, not drinking without being reminded to, not recognizing that he needs to urinate until he's done it and his pants get cold. I've heard the whole, "It makes me happy!" all the way through "Let me do whatever I want, and I'll behave!" that one they don't really articulate, but they do act out--from both of them.

The only thing that has had a little success with my computer obsessed child, was a blanket ban on electronics. No one--including me and their dad--get to use electronics, excepting incoming phone calls or the very rare must make an appt outgoing call until school work and chores are done. For some reason having everyone unplugged made it much easier for him to accept that his time was being limited. This hasn't been perfect, and isn't based on specific time allowances (he only gets time vaguely anyway at his age). I made them a written list of daily activites. I have one, too. When we finish our school and our list then our time is our own. This has cut down a lot on his total computer hours.

To all the ones saying let him play all he wants, I'm not a doctor, but I can't see how staring, pretty much without moving at a computer screen for 12 or more hours a day could possibly be in the best interests of a small child's physical well being. It can wreak havoc on an adult, imagine what it would do to a 4 yr old? Or a 10 yr old? I agree it could lead to a good career, but not if he self-destructs on it now.

I have very mixed feelings on this. Here is why:

I have a son who also very much loves the computer and it has helped him in so many ways. I really do not know what we would have done before computers. He uses it to acquire and research special interests. He plays games, but so many of them are educational in some way. My husband is also going to teach him programming, if he is interested. We are a very pro-computer family.

But also he has been using the computer a long time and so has had time to manage the experience of it. We do not have a concept of screen time per se, but he does do other things. He does not lie about using it, we do not have app accounts to buy games from or anything. He does not look for games, although I have introduced him to some so he might have social conversations with children about them and for learning. He sometimes takes longer to get off the computer when we tell him to go you bed, but it is well within the parameters I would expect of a seven year old, even though he is seven going on four. I tell you this only so you know my experience is not what yours is, and therefore that is my bias.

So, I do not know if the computer is like gambling and some can manage it, and some get addicted. The thing that I would say is I would think about if you really do think he is addicted. (Is his buying games without permission, and poor behavior the behavior of an desperate, addicted person or a function of maturity issues or something else that you have seen in other contexts? )

Sometimes people who do not value screen time, will see it as an intrinsic problem b/c to them anything is more valuable doing than having computer time. I am not saying you are doing that, but it never hurts to check ones biases. I say this mainly because of how you say you can tell he is not truly happy when he thinks he is; just to make sure that is not an unintentional misinterpretation b/c you would prefer him to be happy doing other things.

It is possible his behavior is because it was treated as a "forbidden fruit" and will settle down if he is comfortable with managing his time and is not afraid of it being taken away. Buying games without permission is of course, not OK, especially if your son understands what he is doing is costing money. At the very least, you have to assume right now, if he has access he will do this and add protections to your device, new passwords, whatever.

If he is addicted, and you are sure of this (or as sure as you can be) the question (which is what you asked) is how to handle this? He is in a low place, right now, and if it is like taking a liquor bottle from a depressed drunk, I think you need to be careful. I do not know where you live, but where I am, school is winding down, and will soon end for summer break. If this is true for you, perhaps you can defer dealing with this until the end of the school year, when his stress level will presumably be lower.

I do not have much knowledge about addiction, but based on anything I have read, cold turkey seems to be the most effective thing. This is much of the reason I asked you to make doubly sure that addiction is what you think this is, and not just hyperfocused special interest, or something.

I would have a talk with him (after the stress of school is off, for a bit, if you can) and tell him what your concerns are, and that you are going to cut him off from computer unless he can manage it better because you are afraid he is addicted. Because it is summer, if it is for you, you might give him the carrot of increasing time if he manages it responsibly, but you would like him to use some of it for "more productive" things. I say this mainly because it gives you another opportunity to see if this is under chis control or not. If it is under his control, he should be more than willing to do this, and he should be able to handle more time in exchange for using some of it for things you are more happy about.

Find a subject/concept that he is struggling with or an educational strength that is productive, and even give him choices so he feels empowered. Tell him if he can manage it (and you will help him with reminders of when it is almost time to be off so he can finish what he is doing without being penalized) he can keep the extra time through summer. Give him a few minutes of leeway time for finishing up things. If he cannot do this, and you have confirmed he is addicted, then you will need to cut him off. I would emphasize that getting more time vs. losing all time will be a result of his actions and under his control.

I so hate the notion of cutting off computer, that it makes me sad to write that, but if he is addicted then cold turkey, I think, will be best. I f it comes to that, I would do something like I described above, so he feels it was not an arbitrary thing and that it was under his control.

We struggle with this in our house, too - and we are very restrictive, but I've learned that the rules for screen time have to be the same ALL THE TIME, which means I have to account for days when there is other stuff to do, otherwise we face major meltdowns. It's better for us and him to have only a little screen time every day than it is to change the rules dependent on variables like amount of homework, etc. (We do let him have more time on weekends - but we have to watch to some degree as well, because he will start refusing to see friends just so he can have more screen time.)

However - our one rule for when DS steals stuff: he has to pay for it AND the app or whatever gets deleted/thrown away. In fact, our rule for stealing in general is that he loses whatever he stole, so if he searched up something fantastic, it automatically means he can't have that.

DS is 12, and it's a bit less of a struggle than it used to be, but we still occasionally have difficulty with him stealing the Ipod after bedtime. I sat him down and talked to him about it - I explained that we have rules about screen time because he has shown he can't manage it himself, and especially at night he keeps himself awake to play and then is miserable the next day. We also had a conversation about trust and why it is important, and how I felt when my trust was betrayed. He understood all of that - but he explained that when he gets the thought in his head that playing on the Ipod is fun, that thought takes precedence over everything else.

I talked to him about trying to remember how his actions affect other people in the moment, and talked about practicing those thoughts. I also explained that we would be less restrictive if he can show us he could manage himself better. We'll see how it goes.

Just because you can't come close to that kind of total happiness does not mean it doesn't exist.
Using addiction-language when talking about autistics special interests (or "obsessions") is downright ableistic.


...
Also, why are you people so obsessed with taking your children's obsessions away from them in favor of forcible socializing? I want to forbid you from socializing and make you learn programming (or get some intense interests) instead as that would probably do a lot more good in your life than socializing does - from my perspective. And my perspective is equally valid to yours.
And if you say you wouldn't be happy that way... Why do you think your children will be happy living like you do?

I do understand the parental responsibility/time-management blah blah blah and most of you are probably doing a good job at that - but still, these obsessions aren't some NT addiction, or OCD unpleasantness; this is about total utter happiness.

I love this, and based on this perspective, I have really left my son to persuing his interests as much as he likes.. sort of.



So, here's the issue. The time management thing. I find that my son will neglect his needs so that he can persue his interests. Eating, sleeping, grooming (I know there is debate about this, but minimum grooming is a requirement) and schooling are important, and will often get neglected or opposed. When we have balance, the must do's get done, after that I am good with him doing pretty much whatever he wants. Whatever "it" is, it always includes a plug and a screeen.

There is a difference between a special interest and an obsession or addiction. A special interest adds to the person's life in some way that may not always be obvious to the people around them, but that you can see if you look at it objectively. An obsession or addiction does not.

Hard to know which it is in the OP's situation without being there and observing the child, but I've been through both with my own kids and while an obsession or addiction may be positive at first, there is a time when it crosses the line and it becomes quite clear that the activity is not helping the child in any way and is, in fact, destroying them. Not under some "the world should look like this and my child doesn't definition," but under a reality of having some level of control over your own actions and choices and keeping your mind free of dark thoughts. I have both an ASD child and an NT child and it is my NT one that is actually the more addictive personality, but just because a child is on the spectrum and likely to have focused interests does not mean he cannot fall prey to addicted behavior.

What has me feeling "addiction" is that the activity has changed the child's behavior in negative ways. It isn't just about how the child is choosing to spend his time, but what the mother is seeing in the way of changes in him, it leaves him agitated instead of calmed.

I am glad that the mom can read all the perspectives here because it is impossible for any of us to know exactly what is happening with this one child, so she needs to see all the possibilities and sort it through. Just, please, don't discard one possible angle because you are worried I have preconceived ideas in my head. I've been at this a long time; I actually do "get" what special interests are about. But I ALSO "get" what addiction can look like.