NT wife still struggling....

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Ok first of all thank you to those who have replied to past posts, I am trying really hard to take all this onboard, but I am still struggling.

Personally I have come a long way over the past weeks. I am much calmer, I don't respond/react/defend when my AS husband melts down or looks as though he is about to. My aim has been to create a calm space so that we can then move on to address the serious issues of our relationship.

But this is not enough for him and we are drifting apart.

Sometimes I want to talk about an issue and he makes it clear that he doesn't want to talk, then at a later point takes me to task for not talking to him! When I do try to talk he dismisses everything I am trying to do because none of it makes his life immediately better. Talking was supposedly the basis of our relationship and I admit to being hesitant to raise subjects for fear of his reaction - and that sends us into a spiral

Perhaps I should give an example. Music is something we used to do together - in fact he has very much encouraged me. But he has drifted away from it, I have got deeper into it. He is very resistant when I try to encourage him in this direction. A few weeks ago he was trying and we were working up a song togehter. Then we had an issue/he had a meltdown and wouldn't go back to it. It didn't seem wise to try to force the issue as for him music is a mood-indicator: he'll play if he's in a good place, won't if he's not.

So, as i continued to work on myself, I tried to give him space - although if I ever did mention the music, even in passing, at best it was ignored. Now he is taking me to task for not talking to him about the music, not encouraging him to go back to it!

It feels as though nothing I do is right and what I do do is not acknowledge/is of no worth to him.

If anyone has any advice or pointers as to where I should go from here I would be so grateful. I love this man and when we are good we are brilliant but we have been off-track for so long now I don't know how to get us back.

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What do you mean by "meltdown"? What does he do in "meltdown"? I thought aspie meltdowns were more along the lines of information processing/sensory overstimulation.

I don't know if what I will say will be helpful or not. I was in a 4 year relationship with and Aspie. We have a child together. The last 6 months of the relationship things fell apart seemingly suddenly and the sweet quiet kind man I had been with flat went away. His creative outlet is Photography and my inclusion was suddenly an exclusion. So.. a few parallels there. He moved out and within two weeks called me in tears about how sorry he was and how it was a mistake. I am not a hard person and it would take too long to get into it, but a lot of damage was done in those 6 months and it is not the point of my responding to your post anyway lol.

He came over and we did talk about the drastic changes and the why's of it all. As NT's we can get frustrated with our lives or situations but we usually know why we feel the way we do or what things are not working for us. The things he said seem to be validated by comments Aspies here have made on different topics as it relates to their emotions and feelings. It sounds like there is something making him not happy (this happens to everyone NT or AS from time to time) but he just doesn't know how to sort it out. It seems he wants you to encourage him but he doesn't feel the way he wants to when you do so he gets frustrated and takes it out on you. I spent months being supportive and kind and trying to sort it out for him. I quit when he left. When he came to talk to me I asked him about it all. He said he doesn't know what he is feeling or why and it is frustrating to him. We discussed the things that lead up to it and really I think life just got overwhelming for him and he didn't have a chance to step back and sort out one situation before another came up. Well, this is life. It happens. He needs to develop coping tools for himself weather it be to take some time to himself or talk or whatever he needs but I can't fix it. What I told him was this.. If I could fix it for you I would but I can't. I can't tell you what you are feeling or why. You have to sort it out for yourself and I am not letting you take your frustrations out on me. It is not my fault you feel this way. I told him I had to learn to communicate with you your way. You need to learn to find words to communicate with me as well. Even if it is simply to say "I am frustrated and confused but I don't know why" Say SOMETHING! but treating me like crap doesn't fix your problem and only makes your life worse and makes me resentful of you. We ended up discussing a lot of things and I was very matter of fact an unemotional when we spoke. Later he said he needed to hear everything I had to say.

He doesn't want to shut the door on us and wants to figure out what he is feeling. I can't wait around to see if this life is what he wants. It has actually been the best thing for us both. He has no pressure to be in a relationship and my emotions are not hurt because he is not in it the way I want him to be. I am not looking to get serious with anyone but have gone out on a couple of dates. When he asks me out on a date if I am free I go and we have fun. We are not "together" and surprisingly he has done very well this way. He still has to sort out his stuff. I don't know if we will end up back together and at the moment I don't really want it. The damage is still there.. but we have a nice time and it is always a good date. Sometimes the best we can do is to step away. Not the same as abandoning but being supportive the way we know how to be is not what they need. They have to sort through it themselves and as long as we are there trying to help they can't figure out what they really need or what is frustrating them.

Here's some advice from an Aspie who has been though 3 marriages:

Don't confront him about something being "wrong". It will be take as a personal attack, rather than concern.

Give him space to approach you in his own way, and own time. I realize this is difficult when you have something you need to get off your chest, but believe that if he cares, he will come around.

The trick to giving him space without him seeing it as the cold shoulder is to make an effort to interact with him on a very basic level. Smile if he looks your way. Make small talk. Continue your own routine, but try not to appear aloof and disinterested. Check in with him from time to time.

This approach should provide him with the affirmation he needs, while not overstimulating him during what seems to be a difficult time in his (and your) life.

This may not help at all, but if this advice had been offered to any of my ex wives, I would have been overjoyed if they had taken it.

Yes, I think that's what's happening to him. We've had a couple of really difficult years with bereavement, relocation - not to mention him, me and his two kids moving in together plus a whole lot of other stuff i won't go into - and he did get overwhelmed. Trouble is, prior to this his coping mechanisms were so effective that I didn't realise the full extent of his problem. I was mega stressed myself (the bereavement was my father's death, two days after we got married!) and wasn't really coping, just thought we were in the same boat! Of course now the AS light bulb has gone on, everything is so much clearer. But the passage of time has put him so far (to use his phrase) 'beyond dry land' that sometimes I wonder whether we will ever get back. I do seem to have got myself back to some extent, I just wish he would acknowledge that fact and let me use it as a springboard to move forward. it's so disheartening to be told "Not exactly too little too late as not enough not nearly quickly enough"!

Anyway, thank you for your observations and I'm so sorry it didn't work out for you, LoriB

Thank you IK3. Bit tearful having read your response. This is indeed his 3rd marriage and part of our issue is that from his point of view, everything that happens between us is overlaid with the problems in his previous relationships which makes him much less patient with me than I think he would otherwise be. All the stuff you say about giving him space I have been trying to do, likewise the anti-cold shoulder strategies. It's so hard but I have been doing it...I just wish I got something back now and again, some kind of affirmation or reassurance. Instead I just get told I've got it wrong yet again. I suppose on the plus side, I no longer argue with him when he says things like that and I try not to let it hurt me too much.

IK3 has some GREAT advice about not confronting and just being nice in a basic way. However, being female and NT I do know the difficulty in that. The difficulty.. not finding fault just stating what I see to be fact.. Aspies tend to be all about how things are for themselves and not that I think it is a matter of not caring about how the other person is effected but more just does not have the capacity for the give and take during difficult times. It is hard to smile and be basically friendly when you have needs that need to be addressed as well.

I got pregnant really early in the relationship, had already lost my job and he lost his right after we found out about the pregnancy. I do totally get the stress and it seems your situation is full of stress as well. I can honestly say I think that him moving into his own place was the best decision for us both. I don't know where we will end up.. apart or back together.. at the moment I am not even thinking about it. But IF we end up back together I think we will have needed to work on some communication about the overwhelming feelings he/Aspies go through and figure out a way to address it before it gets to such an extreme place.

If I had it to do over.. when this stuff first started coming about I would have said something along the line of "I can see you are in a difficult spot and I would love to be supportive but I don't know what I can do for you that would be helpful. I am not ignoring you but I want to give you some space to sort things out. I would love to talk with you about it when you are feeling ready to talk. If there is something I can do to help please say what it is."

In the mean time.. take care of yourself. Have coffee with friends, put on a pretty outfit, do something you love. There are a lot of things to work out in these relationships but I still believe it is worth it. Use this time to learn better communication for you both and try really hard to not take it personally. Personally being past the worst of it and talking with my ex I really know he is upset it has effected me and it is not what he wants. He is confused and I don't think he will work it out in a week or two. We still have open communication on his terms. I don't call or text or email unless it is REALLY important and relates specifically to our daughter. He says he spends a lot of time at his place thinking and trying to figure things out. I think the quiet is good for him. I did make sure he knew he could contact us when ever he wants to but that I am respecting his need for some time. I don't think abandonment is healthy for anyone.

This is outstanding, heartfelt, advice, LoriB.

*high-five!*

As I've told my ex-girl friend many times. I hear your words, but I struggle to understand.

Somehow, being Aspie messes up emotions. I suffer from emotional overload in difficult relationship times, and I have no idea what I'm supposed to do to bridge the gap. I feel guilty of making a mistake, a mistake that I didn't mean to make or understand how what I was doing was so hurtful to her. But it was a mistake, and I'm vilified for a mistake. It's even worse if I don't understand what I did, when, or why it was so upsetting.

I want to understand, but communication has been compromised. This is where the NT often refers to us as being "shut down". I want to understand the deeper emotional sequence to what happend, and why everything suddenly went South. But NT's don't communicate what is happening for them.

When I've gone silient, its not that I don't want to talk about it. It's more a matter that I don't know where to start, because I don't know what trigered the upset in the first place. I don't understand, and getting two parties to communicate to the point where understanding is gained seems to be a difficult and rare undertaking.

Overload is a large subject in itself. So many things can cause overload, and consequently mutism (probably seen as avoidence by the other party). Fundamentaly; it is confusion.

Communication can be so difficult -_- hugs!

Ironically that is how I feel most of the time. Sometimes I do fight shy of a conversation because, at the moment, he tends to turn them into an assault course for me and the fear of making a mistake and making it worse makes me wary of saying too much - then of course I'm in trouble for not communicating

It's a minefield at the moment. But where I am now (as opposed to when I first came onto WP) is a much better place. I don't react emotionally or try to reason with him. I am trying to create a calmer environment so that we can move forward. But it is still too slow for him.

Hi Teebie

We've talked on another thread but I don't know your full history, however it does seem to me that you are trying very hard but I don't hear what he's doing (or thinks he's doing) to help the situation. You can't be and aren't responsible for everything that happens in your relationship and whether it succeeds or fails. I know for everything I now understand about my partner, he also has worked hard to be able to say the same in return. You're working hard to understand and get him, are you sure you're getting the same in return?

With regard to meltdowns, I rarely experience them nowadays but I know other people do, but I learnt how to deal with them, for him anyway. I stay with him, quietly, let him get it all out. I let him know he's not frightening me away, that I'm not cross or upset and that I'm ready to talk properly when he is. When he's ready we'll talk, sometimes the whole process can take a whole evening. You mentioned touch on another thread, and I use that too when words would be too much, to reassure him that I'm going nowhere until it has passed.

I think conversations that you want to instigate can be difficult, I've experienced the same, I think he feels threatened and unprepared, so I prepare him now. I pick my moments well, when I know he's had enough alone time, isn't too tired, etc. I have to think of things being in balance for him, many things that don't affect me and I don't even consider, do affect him, I've had to observe and understand what those things are. When I think the time is right I'll say something like, "is it a good time to talk about something?" If he says no, that's the end of it, I just tell him to let me know when he's ready. Often it's not very long afterwards, but he's had enough time to prepare. If you were to try this with your husband then the ball would be in his court, so he shouldn't be able to berate you. I also let him know the level of importance I place on things, it's huge and a deal breaker, or I'm interested in talking about this out of curiosity don't sound too different to him (I've found) For us it's about being clear about why I want to talk about something, and communicating that effectively to him beforehand.

Beyond that, the communication will have to be between the two of you, and I suspect that's where your problem is at the moment. Because you're not communicating effectively you can't talk about the important stuff. You need to make him aware that you can't be expected to only express your opinions to his schedule and you too have needs. Ask him what would work for him, and expect that to change ( I know sometimes what my partner thinks will work for him, and vice versa, doesn't always in practice, we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and start all over again)

I hope I'm not stepping out of line in this forum when I suggest that being on the spectrum isn't an excuse for him not respecting you, and expecting you to make all the adjustments, which is what it sounds like from reading between the lines. He has to be responsible for himself and his actions and can't blame you for everything. It's something you both need to work on. One of the most wonderful things my aspie partner ever said to me was 'I've observed enough of your behaviour now to be able to predict how you'll react 80% of the time' I understand the love and the effort that has gone into that statement, and find it unspeakably romantic. It's about how you work together as a couple, not just about you accommodating him and his needs. My partner said to me that it was important that I didn't get lost in this whole process and he didn't want me to suppress my needs to fit in with his.

My son has horrendous dyslexia, at 28 his writing is still atrocious, about the level of a 6 year old, but I never once let him think it was a 'get our of jail free' card and that unfortunately it meant he had to work harder than his classmates. He now has a very good job in computer aided design and the dyslexia isn't holding him back, I think I may have taken the same approach with my partner without realising it. I'm prepared to work hard at us and our communication, as long as I know I'm getting it back.

Good luck to you both, pm me if you'd like to talk privately x

I think I see the problem.

Alexithymia is making it difficult to impossible for him to actually know what his own feelings are in the first place. Purely due to that, he would be unable to talk about it, but probably want to. At the same time, because he has no idea what his emotions are, when you come asking about them and he doesn't have an answer for you, that is stressing him out majorly - it seems like demanding to him, one he simply cannot answer. It's probably causing emotional overload, which is consequently the cause of the meltdown.

I would switch to written communication. He needs time and space alone to be able to process his own emotions. It's probably going to be difficult enough for him, so give it a weeks days, a week or two and then try to sort out the situation by email instead. I know that sounds stupid and ridiculous to you when you live together - but he will probably be much better and more concise about his feelings in an email than he will be able to be with you talking while trying to deal with the issue itself, the alexithymia, the emotional overload, and you all at the same time. Writing will allow him to work through him everything at his own pace and hopefully help clear the air.

Last edited by Kjas on 10 Jun 2013, 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

written communication might be a good idea in this instance.

It's slow and concise, and you need to think carefuly what the message within the sentence is. Worth a shot as an experiment. Put some questions down on paper and give him a couple days to answer. A bit of back and forth like this might just break through this barrier that has been built up.

I agree, written communication can be effective, but please be aware that the written word can also be open to mis-interpretation. I've tried this method in the past but it wasn't always successful because I'd not made myself entirely clear or he'd misinterpreted what I'd written. A bit like getting those texts that sound rude or offhand, when the sender didn't mean anything of the sort. Once I emailed him what I thought was a apology for something that had happened, but he spent all day worrying about it because it didn't sound like that to him. That evening he very seriously sat me down to talk about the issues I had, I felt so guilty that I'd made him feel that way all day by not being clear. So my advice would be to be absolutely clear what you want to say and edit it until it cannot be interpreted any other way, even leave it and come back to it later with fresh eyes. The written word can seem to have a huge impact sometimes, don't just dash something off. x

Yup have tried the written communication biz and it has worked well, but it has also been disastrous. I do struggle with the fact that he wants everything pared down to half a dozen key words whereas I want to address all the surrounding issues and interpretations. I'm having to learn a whole new way of talking and yes, I'm up for it, but it's hard and mistakes are inevitable and he's in such a hurry for all this, which I do understand, but realistically....