AS/HFA: The difference

Post Reply New Topic

Many times I've tried to explain on the chatrooms the difference between HFA and Aspergers, so I'm going to add on to Ghostman's post.

- Intellect is not a discerning factor.
- Delayed language learning is an indication of a deeper underlying difference in the language centers of the brain. This is the reason why 50% of HFA's are nonverbal. It is easier to type than speak verbally, but for different reasons.
- Self-help skills are also considered a factor, but mostly for LFA rather than HFA. I have self-help problems, but they're relatively light. Low intellect is commonly associated with delayed self-help skills.

In the chatroom, I heard a conversation between people who believe AS and HFA are the same thing, and a HFA becomes AS when they are older, as if a person just grows out of their HFA. Its like saying an AS will grow out of their autism and become neurotypical. Does your thinking change as you grow older, or do you simply develop ever more advanced routines? The term "delayed" is misleading, because its only an indicator rather than the cause.

Deleted

Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Our needs are just different, and so are the ways we satisfy them. I enjoy socializing, but my socializing needs are quite different. Just being in the same room as someone satisfies this social need. While I have many conversations routines and abilities which may be employed, there is no drive to employ these to satisfy my needs. They are only employed when required by others to satisfy their needs.
The "autistic pole" as you put it, is not based on social ability. AS people might be just as bad at socializing as an HFA, but this brain difference which is indicated by delayed language skills is not shared by AS, hence the difference in the DSM-IV criteria.
Agreed, though this is another difference between AS and HFA, it is not the key difference as described by the DSM-IV. The DSM-IV ascribes the key difference as been "delayed" language skills, which is indicative of the underlying difference.

Typically, a person with Asperger's syndrome will have a higher verbal IQ than performance (nonverbal) IQ; and a person with high-functioning autism will have a higher performance IQ than verbal IQ. This means we aspies typically have deficiencies in abilities controlled by the nonverbal (right) hemisphere of the brain like motor control, speech prosody, emotional regulation, visual-spatial thinking, and holistic thinking.

Verbal (left) hemisphere definciencies may indicate limited vocabulary, poor rote memory skills, difficulty with sequencing, and trouble constructing sentences in severe cases.

I am glad someone was actually reading my AS/HFA
memo. I was getting worried that it was not considered
a serious statement.
I like some of your points. The LFA's have limited speech
based on my readings. Being that I am HFA, I can say I speak
very well, but it is not really well conveyed, and I have had a few
comments on this site as well on how my train of logic can be
confusing. It userally gets across one way or another. The
reason why I type my thoughts is they translate alot better than
words.
Danlo, are AS? or HFA?. You seem like someone with some
personal experiece.

[Delayed language learning is an indication of a deeper underlying difference in the language centers of the brain. This is the reason why 50% of HFA's are nonverbal]

.....to further this, I ran across a webpage on NVLD and it said
if someone is 2 years skipped from regular schooling there is usually
a "Substancial" issue, implying HFA and deeper underlying issues.
This is why I say SPEECH, OR ? DISORDER alot. I was held back
in a special school for 2 years and I really don't remember the (?-part).

It's really a language issue...

He's right...

Now I am wondering whether I am HFA rather than AS! I don't have a lot of desire to socialize. I have a job and a family though, and a lot of people do not think I could possibly have AS since I am fairly independent.

I am also confused about whether I have AS or HFA. I was diagnosed with PDD NOS as a child, but was recently re evualuated given the AS diagnosis. I don't understand why my psychologist would diagnosis with aspergers if I had a speech delay. It seems today I fit the profile of someone with AS even though according to my parents, and my medical charts I had classic autism as a child.

It was so funny, we;ve been working on a group project in class. We were talking about how some people in our group are slackers. My colleague turns to me and says: "I have faith in you that you'll work, even though your absent minded" I thought about the "absent minded" professor theory and laughed to myself.

It is amazing how little we know about
neurological disorders. The thing is to
understand ourselves before we can
understand our world. This is why
WrongPlanet is a terrific medium.

You can have delayed language learning without the underlying cause. The first does not necessarily mean the other. As NeantHumain said, Asperger's have deficiencies in nonverbal (right) hemisphere rather than the verbal (left) hemisphere of the brain. This is the underlying cause I talk about. It becomes even more apparent as you get older rather than less apparent.
I'm not sure whether this is a HFA trait, LFA or AS, or just a problem I have, so I'll just say it anyway. I have self-help issues. My self-help skills are very limited and basic.
If I'm sick, I wouldn't see a doctor, I'd have to be forced to go.
I can't drag myself out of my house.
I can't force myself to get a job.
I can't feed myself properly, I live off breakfast cereal.
I will be dependant until my parents die, and I'm forced to become independant.
All my self-help skills are basic, or nonexistent unless I'm forced to. On an intellectual level, I know what I have to do. But at some unknown level, something stops me from doing it unless I'm forced to.
Personally, I think this is another difference between HFA/LFA and AS. I don't know if HFA's don't usually have this and is more LFA, but most AS I've talked to don't have this problem.

There is another older thread on whether AS and HFA are the same thing, if you're interested:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules.php? ... pic&t=1217

[danlo
Butterfly
Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 10

•Asperger's have deficiencies
in nonverbal (right) hemisphere

•HFA's.....
verbal (left) hemisphere of the brain.

"All my self-help skills are basic,
or nonexistent unless I'm forced to.
On an intellectual level, I know what
I have to do. But at some unknown
level, something stops me from doing
it unless I'm forced to. Personally,
I think this is another difference
between HFA/LFA and AS.
I don't know if HFA's don't usually
have this and is more LFA, but most
AS I've talked to don't have this problem."]

Danlo,
What I can say as a HFA person
is that my self-help skills using the
left hemisphere of the brain or
(communication) are silent, or not
verbally understood(logic process)
by most NT's. I have tried to
explain things and it verbally
comes out colorful in words
and not to the point.
My self-help skill subconsciously
are very much intact. I really
don't know what the left brain,
right brain functions have to
do with this?

Any ideas since you are
into brain science more than
I.

You misread my post wrong. The post was split into two halves.

I added this because this is the underlying difference between HFA/LFA and AS and to indicate that I agree with NeantHumains factual statement. This will, of course, manifest in different ways between different people.
Some will be more deficient in the left hemisphere than others and vice versa. I did not mean for it to be associated with the paragraph on self-help, which is why I separated them into different paragraphs. From my understanding of the DSM-IV, psychologists take into account delayed self-help skills when making a diagnosis. I do not know if this is also a manifestation of deficiencies in the brain.
Other than what I have just addressed, I do not know what your post is asking. Perhaps you could clarify?

I am very self-preserving
and will do things silently or
SUBCONSCIOUSLY. This
applies to my self-help skills.
I am not likely to verbalize
a plea for help because it comes
out colorfully worded and not
understood.
Since you were describing
you self-help skills I thought
this might add some insight
into a HFA view, that's all.

I am also autistic. I was never told if they(the testers) dilineated between HFA or LFA in my case, only that I was one of the two. HFA was the label given me by the chatroom peoples, since apparently intelligence determines whether you are HFA or LFA. I am beginning to doubt that determination. Personally, I think its possible to be LFA and high-IQ too.

I don't think asking for help is what is meant by self-help, ghosthunter. Its things like washing yourself, feeding yourself nutritiously, washing clothes, washing your hair, and other things that are basic but essential.
As regards to asking for help, its probably a problem most AS have too. It would never cross my mind that I had a problem, let alone ask for help. The only times when I've realized I have some internal problems is under the effects of alcohol. Before, I had no idea.
If it was an external problem then it'd be less of a problem to:
a. Know that you had it
b. Ask for help about it

Even after realizing I have internal problems, there's nothing I can do about it. Telling someone I know would be impossible. Telling someone I don't know would be twice as impossible. For example, if I was writing specifically for the purpose of helping I wouldn't write it. But because its just an addendum to an external issue, its possible to write it. The block just vanishes.

I too have these same thoughts Danlo but I don't know enough about anything really to know or not. This thread is great guys, I am slowly begining to understand the difference.

I have no idea if I had delayed speech as a child. I know I do at times as an adult! I had huge learning difficulties all through school and still to this day. And even though I can speak quite well appearing to others most of the time, I hate talking. I refer to it as an added convenience although I don't really know about that. If I never learnt to talk then I would have had some understanding of the other issues in my life that are connected with all that.

ElfMan

My speech was delayed, but only the onset of my speech, and the delay was not anything that could be considered "clincially significant". Once I started talking, I picked up on it very quickly and I became "the little professor". Also, my parents could never confirm or deny it, I can't recall, but they think that I knew how to read when I was 2, so language was never a real problem for me.

My mom said when I was around other kids, I tended to want to be alone by myself away from the others, however I do recall in 1985 I started to come out of my shell and start to do things with other kids, but never as much as the other kids.

I really don't know where to place myself, I've read stuff that seems to say I'm HFA, and I've read stuff that says I'm an aspie.

For now I'm calling myself and aspie.