NT & AS-afflicted partner; when is it our turn?

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While I have yet to warm to the label ""neuro-typical" -separating me from my AS-partner; I will use the language of AS-Culture.

My intention with this post is to seek the insights from NT persons who have high-demanding professional lives while trying to navigate high-demanding relationships with their AS-partners.

I did not initially sign up for this life, diagnosis of my partner was after years of living together at my insistence help be sought. How much is too much to compromise of the life you imagine for yourself vs. the reality of living with someone who has AS.

Perhaps this may sound insensitive but please forgive the frankness of my question: What is in it for NTs? After years of being the all-in-one spouse/care giver/ social translator and your marriage /relationship detracting from other important aspects of your life consistently- why stay in your opinions? I have a finite amount of accommodation I may continue to afford my partner with absolutely no reciprocity. Love unfortunately, is not all one needs.

Your thoughts, please?

Have you tried seeking marriage/relationship guidance/counselling?

I have Asperger's but my wife is more or less NT. There are problems between us sometimes. The usual complain is that I don't talk / communicate much with her, but then I'm not very communicative with anyone anyway.

I'll just add that there is a huge diversity amongst people on the autistic spectrum, so certain problems you have with your partner may not be related to Asperger's and may be related to his personality or habits/life experience anyway.

Not trying to be judgmental here, but your statement of "I didn't sign on for this" bothers me. A diagnosis didn't change who your partner is. If you lived together for "years and years" you knew you partner. You knew what you were getting into after all this time. a label didn't change anything about him. If you were in it with enough commitment to be with him long term before you found out something was "wrong" with him, you should still be. But if you can't be, then you need to get out. They can't change and shouldn't be expected to. They are what they are and you chose to follow.

The problem with NT/aspie relationships (I'm married to a wonderful NT man, who chose and loves me despite my differences) is that NTs don't seem to notice the different ways aspies have to express themselves and show their love. And aspies do something that they see as a big thing (putting down ones special interest to watch TV with their spouse, or trying to share it with their spouse, or going along for a social outing that is big and stressful) it doesn't get recognized as such. What is a big deal to them is often seen as just basically the obligation of a relationship to an NT. At the same time, they are unable to do what a lot of times the NT thinks they are entitled to. If those things are more important to you than maintaining your current relationship, you are just not compatible with you aspie partner. Do not stick around and insist he change. That is not fair to either of you. He can't, and insisting on it will just make you both miserable.

Thank you for saying you did not mind my posting in your thread, I do appreciate your openness to different points of view.

People often talk about neurodiversity, I can't really do that, I can only talk about my experience. Yours may be different.

For me labels confuse. And they seem irrelevant. I know that may not be the case, but they do. Or maybe they just make me uncomfortable, they mean something from a distance, but up close and personal, I don't understand how they apply.

That said, I believe too much accommodation is bad, for everybody. What you need is real and has nothing to do with labels that may explain but don't change things. If your partner has trouble meeting your needs, it is important as partners that he recognizes and responds in some way, even if not what you would prefer, and that you recognize his efforts and convey appreciation and encouragement that he continue. And it still may not be enough!

Counseling by a professional may help, a lot. But it's likely to be more successful if the person has experience counseling adults with and without ASD and that's quite hard to find, even assuming your partner is agreeable. Otherwise, I believe it would be important if you are hoping things may still get better that you have friends, or a forum, or a counselor with experience with ASDs---despite what I am saying about labeling, if one wants ideas that will work, they do need to be relevant to the problem.

But too much information won't help with how you feel. The only thing that may help that I have found is to think about what you want to do (within reason) and push past the resistance, your own and your partner's, and do it anyway, alone if necessary, cheerfully but being clear this is what you need and encouraging your partner to recognize and appreciate who you are and what it is you need and will do. You have little to lose other than a tremendous aloneness and resentment at what seemed to be promises that don't seem to be being kept. Do what you enjoy, go with other people if you can, try to enjoy that as a neurotypical (labels again, I can't seem to avoid them) you can make friends, you can reach out successfully, and you can even probably share much of what you are going through and be understood and accepted and supported.

Do these things because as you are stronger, your partner will recognize and respect you more. Or not. And you will have more kindness to give because you will be less unhappy, which he or she will accept, or not.

You can always give up on your partner. Temporarily, or permanently.

Tallyman is right about the counseling, and I agree. I guess though what I am hoping to communicate is that I sense, and I don't know whether this is accurate, but it seems like you feel that tremendous indescribably painful sense of loss that I feel and do not know what to do about, I understand cognitively that it may be different for me as a woman with ASD than it is for you, but what you describe reminds me so much of a feeling common to unresponded to partners that at the same time, I wanted to post. And what neurotypical women tell me they do, and recommend to me that I do, is what I am trying to describe. I've not ever had this conversation with another woman who has ASD, at least as far as I know, often makes me doubt I do it's so incredibly lonely here, but apparently I both have ASD and respond in the same way that neurotypical women do to men with ASD type traits. Or diagnoses. And I don't mean to make you feel excluded, not sure your partner's gender, which isn't that important, what's important is how you feel and what you can do.

Think about you. Not about why your partner is as he or she is right now, it's not the right time. Build yourself back first with things that make you stronger and happier and give you back respect and trust for yourself, and for others. And encourage your partner, calmly, that you are doing what you are doing about you, not to hurt or pressure him/her, it's not about that. And it is happening, he/she can go along with what you need to change about your life peacefully, or not, and either way there will be consequences. He or she may prefer the consequences that ensue from supporting you right now.

I would recommend postponing the where to go long term because you describe you've been giving giving giving. If I misunderstood, I apologize. I just felt reading your post that you may need to get back, from others, before tackling this bigger challenge. I hope something in what I said is helpful to you.

So you didn't sign up for a life with an AS partner? I am sensing some resentment towards the fact he got diagnosed.

Ok, on the spectrum or off the spectrum, there are plenty of women and men out there that deal with partners that they feel they have to care for more than the other does. Some like it, some don't. Some feel that their independence is far too important and much to valuable to just give up for a person that is a little more on the co-dependent side (even if that partner really isn't co-dependent).

There is a bit of an expectation from what I know that an Aspie be "more social." An Aspie will interpret this is having to go out to parties, events for the sole puprose of socializing. If the environment he goes to has something that can prove to be a healthy distraction that also helps him socialize (playing billiards for example here, playing ping pong, going for walks, etc.), then it could be easier to encourage him to get out. But to go out to an environment where there will be lots of noise and lots of people may be intimidating. You might see some anxiety, or claustrophobia even. Whether he can control it or not is a different story.

Now what I think you mean by asking him to be more social? You want him to pay more attention to you. I'm going with the Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus theory here. If your name says it correctly, you are a lawyer. So you already have an extremely demanding job. You come home from work some days feeling pretty overwhelmed and need to let your emotions out and you need the partner to listen. For some reason, he isn't doing it because he may not understand how (maybe has problems controlling his own). So because you can't communicate with him, and he may even be suggesting advice rather than supporting and listening to you, and even validating your feelings, you feel there is nothing to gain out of this relationship. This is where I think the help is needed most. How do we get the Aspie partner to learn to validate your feelings and support you when you need someone to just listen to your feelings?

Good luck with that. As someone who used to believe I was NT, I can only say that my lifelong observation is that people are who they are, regardless of labels. You don't need to navigate someone else's relationship with their partner, you need to have a relationship with your partner. That thing is unique to the two of you. The question that your question raises in my mind is what insights do you want to hear from others?

You did sign up for this life when you chose your partner. What has changed? Knowledge? This is bad? You lost something in this? What was that?

What is in it for you? What was ever in it?
What will you get if you leave?
Why have you stayed, so far?

Why not demand reciprocity?

What is it that you need? How are you going to get it?

You might want to try as partners ( http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/start ) for another perspective. They form a group identity over there by blaming all the problems of their lives on their villainous AS partners. They keep telling each other that, long after their relationships are over. Maybe it will work for some of them someday.

If you have decided to end your relationship, but need bolstering from anti-AS voices, you'll find everything you are looking for over there.

It seems to me that most people have problems with themselves and carry these problems wherever they go. Some tay in bad relationships for decades and some move from relationship to relationship like bees in a meadow, but the problems remain the same. What most people need is to work on their inner problems to the point where they are not seeking a vital something from others, but are happy in themselves. Then they can turn to healthy relationships with others. Does an unhappy person in a relationship have to end the relationship to make the changes that may transform their unhappiness? Maybe, maybe not.

I wonder what the answer will be for you.

Good luck, either way.

EDITED TO ADD:

It's your turn now.
It's always been your turn.
It will always be your turn until you die.

Thank you for your replies.

So leave instead of playing the martyr.

Did his AS traits magically appear post-diagnosis or something?

Well, she came to Wrong Planet looking for answers, shows insight. And she seems to be reading our responses. Maybe she can learn while she is here.

Hi, I'm in the same boat. I've been involved a couple of years with a guy I love very much, a really wonderful person. I'm also a single mom with a career and my own problems, and I've got neither time nor energy for daily whosis. What seems to work best for us is not living together. In itself, this is a problem: he really wants someone to come home to, someone who'll make a home, a haven, and live in ways he finds companionable and tolerable and all the rest. For me, it's too much, and I'm not willing to subject my kid or myself to living with the moods and meltdowns. We've been LD for a while, which isn't ideal but is, for me, tolerable; I really think he's great. When he's in a terrible mood, he says so, I don't bug him, and he comes back when he's feeling better or just wants a wave. When I'm in a terrible mood, he does his best to be there for me, and knows it's time-limited; he'll ring off after a while and won't have to deal with my problems, either. And in between there's conversation, time together.

The idea is for us eventually to live near each other in the same town. If he can tolerate the ambiguity of that (when is it time for one of us to come over? When is it time to leave?) then I think we'll do fine, though we'll see. Why do I put up with it, why don't I go find myself someone local & more socially ept? Cause we got a vibe, baby, we got a thing. Because I think he's a terrific person, and because In many ways we're also very similar. And I also know he cares, and because I find him damned attractive. We usually talk for about an hour a day, skyping, and while actually being in the same room would be much better, this does a lot for me.

My free advice: It sounds to me like you're living now with the shock of recognizing that things will not get better, that it isn't a matter of his trying or what have you. I'd recommend letting that sink in and then becoming practical. Possibly there's something you still love in him. If there is -- how can you enjoy that without feeling obliged to take care of the rest? It's possible you can't. It's also possible that in a deep practical sense, your letting go would land him in deep trouble, in which case you might want to have a look at what other supports might be available for him in your community.

It's totally reasonable to feel betrayed, cheated, etc. You'll hear a lot of indignation here from people with AS along the lines of "you knew what he was like", but that misses the fact that there's a difference between mutable and immutable behavior, and in most couples who've been together a long time, you'll hear one partner (more often the man) talk about how being with the other forced change for the better. It's reasonable to assume that people will grow out of or learn to handle a whole range of behaviors they have when they're young. And maybe you've been trying your heart out and now you find that it was for nothing, that nothing's likely to change ever.

Which may not be entirely fair -- change may be possible. It just might not be change on a timescale or to a degree that's tolerable for you, in the end. This is genuinely a nobody's-fault situation, though, if I'm reading you right. So please avoid taking it out on him, and keep on doing things like this instead. And, with a therapist's help on your own, think about what you want for yourself. It's your life. It's okay to be done being a caregiver. It's okay to rest, to be on your own. It's okay to say "I'll do this but not that." You don't have to apologize for taking care of yourself.

He may have significant trouble understanding what the problem is and adapting to changes. He may also refuse to accept their reality or misunderstand you wildly. He may become quite demanding, or insist on rules for keeping you. This is what therapists are for, and he can see one if he wants to.

It's not an easy situation, and in the end, it's going to be hardest for him. You're free to go reclaim your life. He has to live with this. What you may find is that, if it's possible, friendship with limited expecations is the best answer. You may also find, after sitting with it for a while, that you really don't want to be with anyone else, or without him, and that you're willing to accommodate to an extent even though you know there won't be reciprocation.

I find this last phrase deeply saddening. I think I am very capable of reciprocating affection, love, tenderness, respect, and delight… but I am keenly aware that I know how I feel and it may not always be possible to see. I can also see that I sometimes miss signs, so my wife has had to tell me that she is needs a gesture of support or affection and that it should have been obvious to me…

So I fear I am more like the men you and Lawyer against AS are describing. This possibility seems unbearably cruel. What is a man to do but try his best and try to let his loved ones know the fires of his heart? What can I do but try to make the world around me a little better? I hope it's enough for the ones I love.

I hope you both find the happiness you deserve.

I understand what they are saying, in a way. But I have to believe there can be reciprocity and there can be communication and that it is a lie to say there cannot.

When cues are missed it can cause enormous distress. But when there has once been love, is that lack of reciprocity that can develop AS or is it hunkering down against an often cruel world and being angry and attacking self and loved one; not directly from the ASD but rather from the strain of existing in that often difficult world.

Meaning I agree with Tallyman. Not everything is AS, much is personality and life experience. We choose to give back love and kindness where we can, or to give back hate and anger based on who we are and having ASD does not determine which way we try to live in this world. We decide that.

Wow, what a great point! It's so easy for NTs to paint a person who has Aspergers with a broad brush and therefore to assume that the issues are just due to that label. Thanks for helping me see the wisdom in your comment.

My own marriage ended after 13 years because my NT husband found my lifestyle preferences too restricting. So he left me for someone who was more social, outgoing, adventurous, sexual, etc.

Yes, it hurt me a lot. But I've come to realize that if you take the labels out of the equation, what you're left with are two people who have vastly different lifestyle preferences, interests, and goals in life, to the point where no mutually acceptable compromise can be found.

For a relationship to work, both people have to be happy with it. It doesn't matter whether your partner is autistic or not; if you're unhappy in the relationship, and the problem can't be fixed, then you have the right to stand up for your own needs, end the relationship, and make a happier life for yourself.

My husband is an intelligence analyst in the Navy on Active Duty-- he's currently deployed to the Middle East. So you can definitely say that he has a demanding professional life.

If you asked him what's in it for him (as I have in the past), he'd tell you me. That individual and all of their strengths, weaknesses, and idiosyncrasies.

For instance, I made a Facebook status joking about Sochi claiming that their defenses are a "ring of steel" around the Olympics and how that's vaguely reminiscent of "Iron Curtain", saying that they needed to get new writers. Then my husband and I were messaging about it and I explained the origin of the term Iron Curtain (he had heard of it, but didn't know about Churchill's speech in 1946 where it originated from) and gave him part of the transcript from the speech. I also said that admittedly, Churchill came up with the term, so you can't technically attribute "Iron Curtain" to Soviet writers, but rather British ones. That said, a joke is meant to be simplified, so I felt that my status still stands and was still funny, especially to people with a bit of history humor.

To many/most people, that conversation would have been a giant eyeroll-- she's getting into SO MUCH UNNECESSARY DETAIL! But to my husband, his response was, "Nice! Thanks for the history " and then after I talked about the hole in my joke, his response was just, "I love you." He genuinely loves my dry humor, my autodidactic personality, my smile, and my quirks. Just like I love his heart, the way he laughs, his analytical mind, and his sense of adventure.

Aspies are people, just like neurotypicals. It's not, "What am I getting out of a relationship with an Aspie?" It's, "What am I getting out of a relationship with Julie/David/etc.?" You don't have to love things about Asperger's Syndrome-- love things about the person.

Beautiful!