Gloating. Jealousy. Enjoying others misfortune.

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I don't know if this is down to Aspergers or something totally different, but it's something I've had ever since I can remember. I don't know if it's hate, envy, jealousy or everything in between.

Basically I enjoy seeing people fail. And at times I've went out of my own way to ensure someone does fail. What is this? I think it has something to do with jealousy. I know jealousy is something many with Aspergers deal with but I'm starting to realise that I'm often extreme.

I can't count the number of times I've wanted to see someone fail, and when they do I get a feeling of pleasure from it.

I can give numerous examples but some are pretty extreme. Probably not worth sharing. One example today someone I know has landed a gig at a huge festival. He's an unknown but this festival will make his name spread far and wide. And here's me thinking up ways to ensure this gig doesn't land success for him. I was thinking of ways to tarnish his name, like setting up a website.

I watched a friend (the only friend I have) fail. His business collapsed. He hit rock bottom in life. I gloated in his misfortune.

And whilst I'm in that mood of wanting to do this I don't have any regrets any wrongful feelings. Even afterwards I feel pretty smug and happy.

I googled if others feel this way, and it appears those that do have underlying issues.

Is there any information on this?

It seems to me that you are not a very socially influenced person, this could very certainly be down to AS.

The majority fabricate their desires and moral values from societies preferences. Any deviance from the norm is suppressed.

Your wishes are a deviance from the norm. Its a symptom of a fundamental split from society. You are in touch with your most inner needs in the way most are not.

This is on the whole a good thing. It shows independence and free thinking.

Just make sure it doesn't consume you or govern your life. If you are too deviant, the masses will use it as a tool to control you, and you will be destroyed.

No. Deviance form the norm in itself does not explain the whole thing. There's a certain lack of self-confidence involved, along with self-pity and feeling of insecurity. At least this is how I see it. I may feel jealous or may be enjoying other's misfortune for a while, but my sense of moral always gets in the way somehow, so I never did anything in mistreating anybody that way (or at least not deliberately). Even then, the feeling of jealousy can be so devastating to my emotional world, and I'm sure it primarily has to do with emotional immaturity.

"Schadenfreude."

It's a human trait... I don't think it has much to do with autism.

Perhaps it comes from the way we have all been taught to some degree that in order for one person to succeed, another person must fail. When we see someone else fail, that mindset prompts us to think that this means we are superior to that person, and that makes us feel good.

The trouble is that someone else's failure doesn't actually say anything about your superiority at all (unless that person only failed because you were competing with them, in which case it only means that your skill in that particular contest proved better than your opponent's, and still says nothing about true superiority.). So this reaction is illogical, as many emotional reactions are.

Because humans are social animals, when someone else fails, it is a failure for the entire group. You lose the resources that you could have gained from the other person's success. So, the logical reaction would be to respond to another person's failure in some way that implied that it had been a loss for you, too--feeling sorry for them, feeling angry at them for failing, wanting to fix the problem, or wanting to comfort them.

But feelings are not always logical. Sometimes, when you see someone else getting kicked in the junk, you laugh. We all do. That's just the way we respond sometimes. Anyway, it's not how we feel that matters; it's how we act. You didn't sabotage your friend's performance because your friendship is based on a logical commitment rather than competitive impulses--you're behaving in a rational manner.

It is possible for your rational self to affect your emotions. Whenever you see yourself start thinking of watching others fail, analyze those feelings in a more logical way and re-word your thoughts to make more sense. At some point, the world taught you that other people's failure means good things for you. You can re-teach yourself to feel that same satisfaction, instead, when you see others succeed. And long before your feelings follow your actions, you can decide to act in a way that helps others succeed rather than secretly wishing to see them fail.

If you lack success in your own life, there is a certain pleasure in seeing others fail. It makes you feel better about yourself knowing that failure isn't confined to you and others like you. This can be rooted in insecurity, jealously, envy, etc.

However, if you desire to cause others to fail so you can watch them fail, it's really a pathological issue. You are a danger to other people. You wouldn't want someone else setting you up to fail, so why would you justify doing it to someone else?

There's nothing wrong in getting a thrill from seeing another person fail, but having a hand in that failure is something you need help dealing with.

What I struggle to understand when I ask myself "why am I doing this" is that there seems to be no reason at all. In the conventional world to everyone around me they seem to think I'm successful. Yet I don't feel successful. I think I'm a long way off success in the areas that I devote most of my time to. I'm a little sick of people putting me in the limelight telling family I've done this, and that.

I'm not entirely sure me wanting success is the reason for doing what I do. I don't look at them and feel they are successful, and I don't want what they have.

Having a hand in someone else's failure I have done yes. Nothing to hurt them physically, or cause any danger to someone. And yet these same people that I caused to fail will come to me for advice not knowing I'm the reason behind it. Yes, it may appear wrong. And there are times like now that I sit there and think that was a horrible thing to do. But it's very rare I will look back and feel regret. Tomorrow I will wake up and probably forget all about it and have no regret again.

I don't do it on purpose. I think I've done it for so long that I actually feel like it's normal for me.

What sort of help would you suggest?

I think what the OP is describing goes way beyond Schadenfreude - it sounds more like a personality disorder, and there's nothing positive about it. It demonstrates a dismal self-image.

It's one thing to find amusement in the misfortune of another, if you know that person to have been a bully and to have treated others cruelly, because then you're simply feeling that some sort of karmic justice is being done - but to harbor such resentment against everyone around you that you plot to see them fail at anything they attempt, that's not normal and it has nothing to do with autism.

Autistic lack of empathy has much more to do with reading nonverbal signals in order to understand the emotions of others and know how to respond to them.

While a lack of empathy might lead you to be neutrally unconcerned with how others feel or whether they succeed, it would not lead you to actively wish for and plan to make them fail.

Would the described tendency (being happy when others fail, even going out of one's way to MAKE it happen) be an example of someone being a sociopath or a psychopath?

If you deliberately cause a failure, you ARE hurting someone, and the fact you don't see it that way shows the problem is deep and serious. You DO do it on purpose, because you've admitted you did it deliberately, and enjoyed it.

You want help? Start by confessing to the people you hurt, do what you can to compensate them for the harm you've caused, and FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD TELL A THERAPIST OR SHRINK WHAT YOU DO.

Dude...

You have a SERIOUS problem and you HURT people.

There is no way this can be minimized.

I think that it stems from extreme insecurity and low self esteem. I don't think it's an Aspie thing. Many people struggle with that.

Well, people can be impressed with things in your life that they envy...but has no meaning for you.



Therapy. Your statement indicates that there was a time you didn't do it. Isolate why you started doing it and you may find the root cause of why you still are doing it.

I was used to being rejected by people. One day, I'm driving two women home from a school outing, and we are talking in the car. They comment near the end that I'm really a nice guy, so why do I act like such an ass in class.

It was a big moment for me. Never did I see myself doing stuff to push people away, but I had been doing it for years because I was so used to rejection, I had learned to deal with it...even though it was painful. The fear of the unknown (being liked by someone) was great enough that I preferred the pain of what I knew to the uncertainty of what I did not know.

Now that I knew I was prone to it, I started watching my behavior more closely. Not that I didn't keep doing it, but I recognized that I had a problem.

What you are describing is a feature of psychopathy, not Asperger's.

Why do people enjoy others misfortune?

I can understand maybe if someone has hurt you badly and maybe you want some kind of revenge (that does not mean I condone revenge) but why enjoy others misfortune?

I was watching a movie earlier and there was an old guy in the film. He was in prison but he was a nice old guy and the Warden took away his painting privilege just to be nasty. I found it to be a really sad scene. He really loved his painting. He said to the guard 'It is all I have'. He later cut off his fingers in protest which was a bit gross and shocking but also sad (The film was Escape From Alcatraz with Clint Eastwood). I felt very bad for him even though it was only a movie.

Why would people enjoy seeing someone suffer?

And telling lies about someone on a website can be very harmful to that person. People tend to believe what they read.

I honestly don't think it's psychopathy. It's more like what comes from low self-esteem, when you think so poorly of yourself that even seeing someone else fail can cheer you up. Yeah, psychopaths like to see others hurting, but they're not the only ones. It can come from other places, too.

Low self-esteem can be a real problem if it gets bad enough. People with moderately low self-esteem are usually okay--they're a bit unsure of themselves, and that just makes them more careful; when they achieve something, they can take pleasure in it. But if it gets worse, if your self-esteem really hits bottom... well, just like very high self-esteem leads to narcissism, very low self-esteem makes you feel like you can never do anything useful--even if, logically and objectively, you are doing useful things. Even if other people see you as a success. Even if you're doing absolutely amazing. People with low self-esteem and high achievement often end up feeling like they're faking it--like they're not really successful at all, just tricking everyone into thinking they are.

Like I said in my earlier post, I recommend focusing on facts. The things you've accomplished are real, factual things that happened. The way you actually act toward your friends--not just the way you feel when you see them fail--are real things that you have done. Focus on those things, because your emotions aren't really reflecting the way things actually are. If you have a tendency to ignore the good and dwell on the bad, be aware of that tendency and steer yourself away from it: Failure and uncharitable feelings are human experiences, and just because you experience them does not mean that they define you. You also do and feel other things, which are just as relevant.

What would you think of a stranger if you found out that they had done the things that you describe?