Repost: NT seeking advice on specific problem

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I originally posted this on the parent forum because I don't want to invade any ASD spaces, especially with an issue like this, but they suggested I post it here.

I would appreciate advice on how I can sensitively handle this situation. It is two years ongoing. I know that the issues in this scenario are not typical of people with ASD, so my question isn't "are all people with ASD like this?" But rather "how can I approach this situation?"

Two years ago, a student (we are in college) joined a club that me and my friends are members of. So we welcomed him in but gradually he began making a lot of people, especially females, uncomfortable. He would follow them, comment on their bodies, etc. We confronted him about it and he told us he has Asperger's. Ok, we think, we'll be really specific about what he's doing and explain to him why it makes us uncomfortable.

But when we explained to him, he would apologize, tell us he has Asperger's...and repeat the behavior. Eventually we became firmer and colder, which made him push more. He hung out with us more, followed us more, just generally made us feel like he was forcing his presence on us. I told him that this was making us more uncomfortable because it felt like he was trying to become our friends just by being around us, even though he had already made a lot of us uncomfortable (two of those people have ASD too). He said, "oh, that's not true. The great thing about Asperger's is that I don't feel any social pressure at all." Based on everything I read about ASD and what my friends w/ ASD confirmed later, this is untrue but I am Nt so I didn't call him out on it. (Clarifying: in the context of our conversation, it sounded like he meant he doesn't care about making friends or belonging, but I could have misconstrued what he meant.)

I haven't spoken to him for a few months but one of my friends told me but he has been trying to report me and te club to our school. He asked one of my friends (who he only met once before) to confirm to authorities that my friends and I have been leading a campaign against him. He recently messaged me threatening to report me to my job, claiming I discriminated against him because of his race (which I didn't...I never even saw him at my job.)

I know that this behavior is not typical of ASD. What I want to know is how can I handle this while being sensitive to his ASD? I thought explaining to him his behaviors would be fair, but then he didn't stop. I don't know what else to do. He is very reactionary and defensive. He gets too upset when people aren't 100% loving to him, but after so many chances, I don't think we owe him a more.

Last edited by NoTAhelp on 05 Jun 2014, 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry to hear about this issue, both for you and your friends, but also for this particular person. I can't help but feel some compassion for him, as he doesn't seem to be able to recognize boundaries (which can be an ASD trait), but he still wants friends.

Since you are at the point where you don't really interact with him much, I don't see a problem as such. I realize he's attempting to report you, but is that just unnecessary drama you can ignore, or do you think they are going to take him seriously?

If you feel he's not going to be taken seriously, I would really only recommend you explain the situation to your boss at work, and let him know what steps you tried to take to resolve the issue. I think this person's behavior will speak for itself.

I am by no means an expert on ASD, but some of the characteristics you've described can be associated with it. As you've said, not everybody with ASD has these characteristics.

In short, aside from perhaps a conversation with our boss, I'd advise you do nothing.

If you don't want to spend time with someone you should not have to, AS or not. I would simply tell the truth and not worry about him. If someone means you harm do not worry too much about their feelings as long as you do not do anything immoral. It is perfectly moral for you to avoid this person or any other and never think about them again. That is my opinion

For me personally, it is upsetting that I don't have better social skills. Some of my fondest memories are with people I like. At the same time it can be exhausting. My point is that I understand his desire for friendship and inability to do so properly but he needs realize that he cannot force people into friendship. If people do not like you, for whatever reason, you should leave them alone. You do not owe anyone friendship. If you don't like spending time with someone don't. Yes that can be hurtful to the other person. As an aspie I think no one should be forced into a friendship. We tend to feel very strongly about this. It can be painful when directed at us, but that is the way things are. You don't owe anyone friendship or time.

Thank you! I am probably going to ignore it. I hoped to talk it out so that there weren't hard feelings, but I guess that isn't possible right now. I hope he finds his own friend group.

Hyena, thank you too. That's what I was trying to explain to him but not as well as you did--I think I was a little too harsh. On the one hand, I sympathize with him. On the other hand, some people simply don't mesh and shouldn't be forced to.

Last edited by NoTAhelp on 04 Jun 2014, 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I may be able to assist you here.

I have AS, and I have also been kicked off just about every forum pertaining to my interests on the internet by NT people...the only fora I have not been evicted from, is this one, Psych and Pojo and mostly because the people understand me here and on those fora.

Do you know why I always get kicked off? because I am too outspoken, confrontational and just an all-round 'troublemaker' - yet, I need not swear, flame anybody, abuse anybody or break any forum rules to see me not last any longer than a month in any one place...

...and the argument? 'Change your behaviour immediately or just get lost...we don't want 'your kind' around making trouble for us and ruining the nice little 'social clique club' we have going on here'.

That is when I usually forgo my kind, mild-mannered nature and use the 'eff word' (I rarely ever use it unless I am beyond angry).

I have told such NT people that I have ASD and cannot help it due to my disability, but it's always 'cut the crap and even IF you have ASD, stop using it as a bloody crutch and learn to take responsibility for your actions/behaviour'...but hey, if I could actually do that, I wouldn't have ASD now, would I?

All you can do, is find somebody very open, honest, but non-confrontational and non-persecuting/judgmental (preferably a female, because then it will 'hit home').

"We understand you have Asperger's and seek to make allowances for it, we are trying to help you and integrate you into our society, but there's one thing you really need to know, stalking females is also known as sexual harassment and there are laws against doing this. We are only telling you now, so you don't wind up in jail later on...we don't want to see that happen to a friend and want to avoid it...so please try and restrain yourself."

Basically, you must talk to an ASD sufferer like a child, but without the patronising overtones (because we pick up on that like lightning).

We are not simple or stupid, but we need to have a clear-cut, definable and understandable set of changeless rules to follow, so putting it in writing and making it all 'solid', is a lot better than just flapping lips about it, because an Aspie's sufferer will just go...'hmmmmm...yeah.....more words...words and words.....oh look at that pretty butterfly out the window....'

So, I hope I helped.

Last edited by SoMissunderstood on 04 Jun 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sounds like you are making the right decision. I don't think there's a way you can talk this out that wouldn't result in further hard feelings, and perhaps even more unwanted interaction from him in the future. As you've said, hopefully he'll find a group of friends and will think nothing more of the situation.

The Squid is flabbergasted at the portrait you have painted. We cannot make the assumption on if this man has AS or not, but we can tell he is a slimy toad. Following women around and making lewd remarks at them is horrible. Playing the "race" card when you try to fight back is sinister. Taking the whole issue to the "Authorities" and sending you threats about your job for us would be the final straw. We suggest you do not delete those messages, and you bring them to the attention of your friends in the club. If the "authorities" he's called come to you, use them as testimony of his misbehavior. The Squid cares little about whether this man has AS or not, and we don't feel you need to be sensitive to him about this. Even for us on the spectrum, we can eventually tell when something is unwanted after a while. Do what you need to do to resolve the situation, before something escalates.

I'm cynical having heard only one side of the story.

A jerk is a jerk, whether NT or not. This man seems to have other issues going on, and in unwilling (not unable) to take any responsibility for his behaviour.

Good for you in not being sucked in to the "Aspergers makes me behave like this" excuse.

Honestly it seems he is using ASD as an excuse, especially if you told him clearly what made you uncomfortable but he continues to do it anyway. Believe me, if a guy was following me and making comments about my body, I would tell him to get the heck away from me. And if he continued harassing me I would call the police.

Welcome. I think this experience is likely unpleasant for him too. The belief that one must have friends can make one do stupid things when one has AS. It is way better to be alone than with people that don't like you. I recall being in high school and a person with AS would follow me around, so so annoying! It was likely unpleasant for him too. When I was younger sometimes I also stuck around with people that I now know weren't very fond of me. I would advise people with AS to choose solitude over getting in pointless "friendships" with people who clearly do not enjoy being with them, and likely people they do not enjoy being with. Solitude it is far better!

Annoying is one thing. Being mean spirited is another. When someone is mean spirited you do not owe them anything at all.

Hate for hate and ruth for ruth
Eye for eye and tooth for tooth
Scorn for scorn and smile for smile
Love for love and guile for guile
War for war and woe for woe
Blood for blood and blow for blow

Aren't we aspies weird LOL

It's very common for Aspies to mistake "friendliness" with friendship. I know I've really struggled with that my entire life and thought I'd had friends when they were just being friendly. Unfortunately, I think many people feign friendliness as a defense mechanism so as not to hurt other people's feelings and cause tension.

I agree with others in that he's using it as an excuse to be a jerk.It's best to just be very direct and specific--We don't do will with the vague--at least I don't.

I feel bad for the poor anonymous Aspie - one guy shows up claiming to be "NT" and end of story.

How does somebody who isn't Autistic even know to use the phrase NT? I'm not trying to cause trouble, I genuinely don't know, I never heard it used until I came here. I do see a lot of people who think they are one of those mysterious illusive NTs calling themselves that though.

One thing is for sure, if this story is true whether he is being a jerk or not, you don't have to be his friend if you don't want to. That's just going to lead to misery for both of you. And I doubt anything you say "to" him will help him at this point.

My concern is just that maybe while he was running around making women uncomfortable, he may possibly have not been trying to be a jerk, maybe he was trying to fit in, or say what he thought you wanted him to say or maybe he meant something entirely else and it came out all wrong (yes repeatedly, that happens). Sure you shouldn't put up with him making anyone uncomfortable at all ever, but if he was just trying to fit and you as a gang "confronted" him, he's just going to be more confused. Not your fault, but that's what would have happened.

It's possible he's just never had any practice being in a relaxed friendly relationship, so he needs time and patience to learn. Maybe he's emulating some jerk on a tv sitcom because that's all he can figure out what to do now. And did the universe put you here to be his teacher, probably not.

I don't know, you have to do what makes you happy, but I'm not dumping on the poor guy just based on your story.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad either, I'd be as annoyed as you, unless I maybe understood what was going on. But you might have played a role in it too for all I know.

You just have to do what you think is best, I guess.

Yes, I agree. You can't just say he's making you uncomfortable, you have to say the comments he makes about your bodies and sexual comments are very inappropriate and all of you dislike it when he does that and if he wants to stay in the club or interact with any of you, he must stop, otherwise he must stay away from you. You can tell him it has nothing to do with him having AS and that he's been told explicitly to stop specific behaviours (making sexual comments, following) and stopping them is a requirement for continued membership in the club and association with you.

There are allot of different factors here we could go through about why thus guy has behaved like this. However end of the day if you have made your mind up now you simply can't be friends then that's that, thier also is no way you should let him threaten you like that and if he trys too then defiantly close all contact with him. If you are willing to give him another chance then tell him exactly why what he has done is wrong and that if he wants to be apart of your club he has to stop this, possibly ask him why he feels he dose it deep down and maybe even try help him but thats a pretty far out idea as I think from what you say its gone to far and I would agree.

Actually, it's true for a minority of AS people, myself included. But it's no excuse for harassing other people.

I never feel embarrassed, and I'll gladly tell people personal details about myself. But if people tell me they don't want to discuss a certain topic, I'll make an effort to switch topics. It isn't always easy for me, because I tend to be obsessive, but I'll try. (As long as I feel they have a good reason to request this - I don't let people just shut me up when they don't want to allow dissenting viewpoints, but if they indicate that they're being seriously affected emotionally, I'll drop it unless I'm risking worse consequences to myself by not talking about it.)

I'm asexual, so I haven't been tempted to make sexual comments, but even if I like the way a person looks (being asexual doesn't mean you can't appreciate beauty) I try not to comment on it, because I know it makes other people uncomfortable.

I don't know if this guy is just being a jerk, or if he's so desperate for acceptance that he's getting stuck in a bad pattern of behavior, but either way, if his behavior is causing other people significant discomfort, it shouldn't be tolerated. I know from personal experience that some people can get very upset by someone sexually harassing them - I'm a sexual abuse survivor, and even appropriate sexual advances are scary for me, but when someone won't back off when I tell them to, I panic. Sadly, it's almost certain, statistically speaking, that at least one woman in your group is a sexual abuse survivor, and even non-survivors are aware that we live in a sexually violent society and this can make them afraid when someone is being too pushy sexually. So sexual harassment is likely to be very upsetting to many people, and this shouldn't be tolerated just because you feel sorry for someone who's desperate for friendship. It sounds like you've taken reasonable measures to try to help him stop this, and it hasn't worked. So it's acceptable to exclude him for the well-being of the other group members, even though it really sucks for him.