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Nicnic
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04 Jul 2014, 12:45 pm

If we have to go through more challenges in order to succeed, why are we categorized as inferior? It makes no logical sense whatsoever.



Iyelix
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04 Jul 2014, 1:05 pm

Nicnic wrote:
If we have to go through more challenges in order to succeed, why are we categorized as inferior? It makes no logical sense whatsoever.


I have a hypothesis, that the reason disability is looked down upon, is because here's the cold truth: Most people want to USE other people. And who has the most stuff to use of them? People who have the least disabilities or no disabilities at all. I'm disabled myself, socially speaking, and maybe mentally in some ways as well I am embarrassingly bad at certain things.

And in simple, I think that's most all there is to it. Although of course, the TYPE of society we live in, by making things so difficult for people with disabilities to the point we can't even function, disempowers us, when otherwise we might be valued as more useful if it weren't for that... But again... I think it all comes down to people wanting to use other people, and more abled someone is, the more "useful" they're seen as.

Which I don't like at all, but I can't change the way people are like that.



KB8CWB
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04 Jul 2014, 2:32 pm

Iyelix wrote:
Nicnic wrote:
If we have to go through more challenges in order to succeed, why are we categorized as inferior? It makes no logical sense whatsoever.


I have a hypothesis, that the reason disability is looked down upon, is because here's the cold truth: Most people want to USE other people. And who has the most stuff to use of them? People who have the least disabilities or no disabilities at all. I'm disabled myself, socially speaking, and maybe mentally in some ways as well I am embarrassingly bad at certain things.

And in simple, I think that's most all there is to it. Although of course, the TYPE of society we live in, by making things so difficult for people with disabilities to the point we can't even function, disempowers us, when otherwise we might be valued as more useful if it weren't for that... But again... I think it all comes down to people wanting to use other people, and more abled someone is, the more "useful" they're seen as.

Which I don't like at all, but I can't change the way people are like that.


Of course! As long as you are of use to someone, then they seem to care and are there in whatever capacity. Even if they don't need what you have/possess at the moment you might be needed in the future.

However if you have nothing to give them, they have NO use for us and throw us away like trash! I am convinced that in society well over 90% are this way and in my opinion it is probably more like 99.9% of society in general. This in many cases pertains to a goodly majority of family as well, not only friends.

Only thing I can figure it is some sort of survival mechanism that we evolved with. Of what use is it to share resources to someone who doesn't contribute or is of no value to the group? Whatever resources be it time, food, material items are best shared with someone who can provide things of value in return. I don't think most people are malicious in looking down at us. It is more subconscious and built into survival mechanisms. No need to waste resources on something that doesn't return value (perceived) back.



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04 Jul 2014, 2:33 pm

Iyelix wrote:
Nicnic wrote:
If we have to go through more challenges in order to succeed, why are we categorized as inferior? It makes no logical sense whatsoever.


I have a hypothesis, that the reason disability is looked down upon, is because here's the cold truth: Most people want to USE other people. And who has the most stuff to use of them? People who have the least disabilities or no disabilities at all. I'm disabled myself, socially speaking, and maybe mentally in some ways as well I am embarrassingly bad at certain things.

And in simple, I think that's most all there is to it. Although of course, the TYPE of society we live in, by making things so difficult for people with disabilities to the point we can't even function, disempowers us, when otherwise we might be valued as more useful if it weren't for that... But again... I think it all comes down to people wanting to use other people, and more abled someone is, the more "useful" they're seen as.

Which I don't like at all, but I can't change the way people are like that.


So basically in society people with disabilities are seen as less exploitable? and this is a bad thing? hmmm, screwed up world we live in isn't it.


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04 Jul 2014, 3:29 pm

I don't think people with disabilities are less useful. I think we are looked down on more because of the fact that we are less likely to engage in the using of other people.

When I was in school, I actually, believe it or not, had less friends because of the fact that I refused to trash talk others and also because of the fact that I would be nice to everyone.

Therefore, people who at first liked me for being kind to them soon disliked me for also being kind to the people that they disliked/people that weren't as kind to them.

It really is a cursed world out there, isn't it? :evil:


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KingdomOfRats
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04 Jul 2014, 6:47 pm

we are looked at as inferior because of the attitude people still have to the word disability.
people still think it means entirely disabled,no ability,non functioning.
people are still viewing disability using the outdated medical model and do not understand just because someone has disability it doesnt mean they cannot contribute to society in some way or another, whether its through having a paid job,a career,a voluntary job,a good listener, or their humour and care for others that helps to keep the community going.
everyone has something to give,whether they are mildly or profoundly disabled and everything in between,that is what makes the prehistoric translation of 'disability' suck so much,even people in comas contribute to society;in the way of keeping people in jobs,training,developing understanding,we need to change the way society views us but thats like trying to herd cats, society is a stubborn bugger.


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Last edited by KingdomOfRats on 04 Jul 2014, 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Marybird
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04 Jul 2014, 6:48 pm

disability is looked down upon because it is seen as having something missing that humans are not supposed to have missing, an incomplete person rather than a different person.
We are all complete and whole human beings and have a right to be ourselves.



Callista
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04 Jul 2014, 9:35 pm

It's an old fear, older than humanity itself.

If you are a wild animal, being close by to another animal that is ill or acting oddly can be dangerous. You might catch the illness, or the animal's confusion could attract a predator that might hurt you both.

So it is a natural instinct to stay away from those who are ill. It can be seen in humans most significantly in the disgust reaction. If you saw an infected wound, or a sore, or a person with a runny nose and red eyes, you would instinctively back away. That is a survival instinct and it's been around since we had backbones, possibly before that.

But we are humans, and group animals, and that changes things. Group animals will care for weak members of the group because doing that makes the whole group stronger--the weak animal may recover and protect you; or else, the weak animal will contribute despite its weakness because it has been supported by others. Humans overcome their disgust/fear reaction to illness and odd behavior when they care for a sick baby, counsel someone with a mental illness, or work in the medical profession. For us, culture and compassion balance out the tendency to reject the weak, injured, or ill, because for us, not rejecting them actually gives us a survival advantage. If we support Grandma even though she has a bad heart, she will teach us how to grow a garden. If we support the veteran who comes back with only one leg, he may become a skilled watchmaker. If we support Van Gogh despite his mental illness, we get his artwork. Because we have the ability to cover another person's weaknesses, we've grown into a species with an instinctively compassionate reaction that often overrides the fear and disgust that come from the more primitive parts of our brains.

That doesn't mean that those fear/disgust reactions vanish, though. People still have them, and if they listen to them, they can grow into unthinking prejudice that, however illogical, leads to the same rejection of the ill or injured that would take place automatically if we were lizards instead of human beings.


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04 Jul 2014, 11:21 pm

I think that we represent what people fear:

dependence (even though everyone really is)
inability to do the things you want and/or losing the same
mortality (sickness = death after all)
helplessness due to no choice
and so on



Iyelix
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05 Jul 2014, 4:44 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
So basically in society people with disabilities are seen as less exploitable? and this is a bad thing? hmmm, screwed up world we live in isn't it.


That's exactly how I see it, most people I think are just looking for someone they can exploit the most in one way or another.

Girlwithaspergers wrote:
I don't think people with disabilities are less useful. I think we are looked down on more because of the fact that we are less likely to engage in the using of other people. When I was in school, I actually, believe it or not, had less friends because of the fact that I refused to trash talk others and also because of the fact that I would be nice to everyone.

Therefore, people who at first liked me for being kind to them soon disliked me for also being kind to the people that they disliked/people that weren't as kind to them.


The way I see it, we live in a world with a bunch of different conflicting teams, and most people will only like you if you express hostility towards their rival teams, and that's one of the only ways to become popular.

A few people aren't like that, but the majority seem to be that way.

KB8CWB wrote:
Of course! As long as you are of use to someone, then they seem to care and are there in whatever capacity. Even if they don't need what you have/possess at the moment you might be needed in the future.


Sometimes it's physical labor, or assistance with some type of skill other people lack, although I feel like I've often noticed, it's as shallow as the ability to make money. I think in today's society, it usually is the ability to make money, so people who are just plan bad at making money, even if they're good or decent at other stuff, get really heavily devalued, because for most people everything is so money oriented.



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05 Jul 2014, 6:19 pm

The world subscribes to a "throw away" mentality.

A tool is only valued until it is no longer needed. This analogy is applied to people.

Most "disabled" people are like defective tools. It's so easy to just grab a properly working one off the next shelf than deal with a defective one.

So many NTs learn the hard way what this is like when that day comes that someone younger, stronger, more eager comes along and they are tossed aside in spite of decades of hard work and devotion.



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05 Jul 2014, 6:46 pm

Disability is basically seen as a weakness in our individualistic society. Independence and success are valued more than family or community.



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05 Jul 2014, 6:52 pm

Callista wrote:
It's an old fear, older than humanity itself.

If you are a wild animal, being close by to another animal that is ill or acting oddly can be dangerous. You might catch the illness, or the animal's confusion could attract a predator that might hurt you both.

So it is a natural instinct to stay away from those who are ill. It can be seen in humans most significantly in the disgust reaction. If you saw an infected wound, or a sore, or a person with a runny nose and red eyes, you would instinctively back away. That is a survival instinct and it's been around since we had backbones, possibly before that.

But we are humans, and group animals, and that changes things. Group animals will care for weak members of the group because doing that makes the whole group stronger--the weak animal may recover and protect you; or else, the weak animal will contribute despite its weakness because it has been supported by others. Humans overcome their disgust/fear reaction to illness and odd behavior when they care for a sick baby, counsel someone with a mental illness, or work in the medical profession. For us, culture and compassion balance out the tendency to reject the weak, injured, or ill, because for us, not rejecting them actually gives us a survival advantage. If we support Grandma even though she has a bad heart, she will teach us how to grow a garden. If we support the veteran who comes back with only one leg, he may become a skilled watchmaker. If we support Van Gogh despite his mental illness, we get his artwork. Because we have the ability to cover another person's weaknesses, we've grown into a species with an instinctively compassionate reaction that often overrides the fear and disgust that come from the more primitive parts of our brains.

That doesn't mean that those fear/disgust reactions vanish, though. People still have them, and if they listen to them, they can grow into unthinking prejudice that, however illogical, leads to the same rejection of the ill or injured that would take place automatically if we were lizards instead of human beings.


Exactly. The human race is capable of both love and hate towards the disabled.



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06 Jul 2014, 11:42 am

Iyelix wrote:
although I feel like I've often noticed, it's as shallow as the ability to make money. I think in today's society, it usually is the ability to make money, so people who are just plan bad at making money, even if they're good or decent at other stuff, get really heavily devalued, because for most people everything is so money oriented.

I've noticed this as well. It seems to be rampant in the US. I get more stigma for not having a job than for anything else.


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BritAspie
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06 Jul 2014, 2:37 pm

Even though it's 2014 we still live in a honour/shame society if you have something that hinders you from being a fully productive member of society people subconsciously (sometimes consciously) see you with less worth



MrGrumpy
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06 Jul 2014, 3:00 pm

In the UK, I guess the really contradictory thing is that workplaces and public spaces are under ever-increasing regulatory requirements to provide access and other special facilities to wheelchair-users, whilst the UK National Health Service is increasingly being exposed as failing to fulfil its purpose.

There are many forms of disability, but unless the disability is obvious (like blindness, for example), it is hard to know how we can be expected to make the necessary allowances.