But don't expect us to pay for it,

Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

31 Jul 2014, 6:24 am

..."because it's elective." On elective surgery to repair an aortic aneurysm (emphases on the word elective added):

Quote:

The mortality rate for elective surgical repair of ascending aortic aneurysms in large centers is 2.5% to 5%.84,108 The risk of perioperative stroke (the major morbidity associated with this operation) is ≈1.7% to 2.4%,109,110 with repair of the aortic arch incurring a higher risk. Aneurysms with an annual risk of rupture or dissection higher than the combined risks of perioperative morbidity and mortality should be repaired electively. For idiopathic ascending aortic aneurysms, surgical intervention at 5.5 cm has been recommended on the basis of the finding that aortas ≥6.0 cm have a significantly higher risk of dissection or rupture.84 Those with BAV should have elective surgical repair of the ascending aorta when it reaches >5.0 cm,93 similar to Marfan syndrome criteria,111 because ascending aortas associated with BAV have fast growth rates and tend to dissect and rupture at a young age. Those with indications for elective replacement of a dysfunctional aortic valve, for which guidelines are discussed elsewhere,93 should undergo concomitant repair or replacement of the aortic root or ascending aorta at >4.0 cm.112

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/119/6/880.full

What are people doing making us send all our money for elective procedures!

Glam, I say, glam!

Of course, people always forget: elective means only that the procedure can be scheduled ahead of time, not that it's not necessary.

The same is true for sex reassignment surgery in certain patients.

_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin

drh1138
Velociraptor

Joined: 2 Dec 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 498

31 Jul 2014, 9:44 am

That's beside the point. Elective or no, everyone is responsible for their own medical needs.

sonofghandi
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,540
Location: Cleveland, OH (and not the nice part)

31 Jul 2014, 9:49 am

drh1138 wrote:

Elective or no, everyone is responsible for their own medical needs.

Including newborns with congenital defects, right? Those lazy babies just lying around whining all day!

_________________
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently" -Nietzsche

drh1138
Velociraptor

Joined: 2 Dec 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 498

31 Jul 2014, 9:59 am

sonofghandi wrote:

drh1138 wrote:

Elective or no, everyone is responsible for their own medical needs.

Including newborns with congenital defects, right? Those lazy babies just lying around whining all day!

Of course not. As soon as they're born, I figure they're in debt. We can take them out to be raised in a Company Town, where they'll be taken real good care of (at expense) while they work in the coal mines to pay for their own birth. :roll:

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

31 Jul 2014, 4:24 pm

Remember not too long ago when the liberals only wanted basic healthcare coverage at taxpayer expense. Now it's the full range of trans-gender care, abortions, and all contraceptives to name a few?
In essence, they have moved the goalposts halfway into the next county. :roll:

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

The_Walrus
Forum Moderator

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,834
Location: London

31 Jul 2014, 4:46 pm

I'd just like to praise American liberals for finally getting their act together.

beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

31 Jul 2014, 5:01 pm

Raptor wrote:

Transition-related care is medically necessary in some cases, but is often out of reach of those who need it. It should definitely be covered.

_________________
"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin

Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

31 Jul 2014, 7:47 pm

I hope I'm not spoiling anything by pointing out that this thread is going to go exactly the same way as every other thread arguing that taxpayers should pay for gender reassignment surgery; i.e. beneficii is going to make a human rights claim and compare other "mandatory" surgeries, and Raptor is going to point out that it isn't life or death, and then the details are going to get picked apart until everyone is angry.
Hopefully that saves everyone some time.

_________________
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer.

- Rick Sanchez

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

31 Jul 2014, 8:30 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Come to think of it, just about all of beneficii's threads are trans related. :chin:

Never before have there been so many threads, if any, on this particular subject.

Quote:

and Raptor is going to point out that it isn't life or death,

Life or death is a little bit too spartan even for a hate filled conservaive like me BUT a line has to be drawn somewhere. I'd be willing to allow someone's sight to be restored or a kidney for someone that's on dialysis and similar cases but that's as far as I go with spending other people's money. I'll never buy depression, regardless of the cause, as life threatening enough to dig into the public's pocket. That's coming from someone who's family is no stranger to the effects of depression.

Quote:

and then the details are going to get picked apart until everyone is angry.

The bread and butter of PPR existence. :flower:

Quote:

Hopefully that saves everyone some time.

Nah, we'll probably go the long route with all the anger and emotional gymnastics. :twisted:

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,481
Location: Aux Arcs

31 Jul 2014, 9:10 pm

^Then you have never seen anyone severely depressed.

_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

31 Jul 2014, 9:45 pm

/\ Whatever, but my stand on this won't get any more charitable than it is which is already pretty charitable for a hateful conservative thug.

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

31 Jul 2014, 10:41 pm

beneficii wrote:

But don't expect us to pay for it

Many Americans seem easily conned into thinking that when the government pays for something -- it is not the citizens paying for it. So, just tell them you don't expect them to pay for it, you'd be fine with the government taking care of the cost

_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.

luanqibazao
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 754
Location: Last booth, Akston's Diner

01 Aug 2014, 12:17 am

Raptor wrote:

/\ Whatever, but my stand on this won't get any more charitable than it is which is already pretty charitable for a hateful conservative thug.

I don't think that using the guns of the State forcibly to take money from A, and give (some of) it to B, qualifies as "charity" at all. Charity is voluntary.

Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

01 Aug 2014, 9:35 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Raptor wrote:

/\ Whatever, but my stand on this won't get any more charitable than it is which is already pretty charitable for a hateful conservative thug.

I don't think that using the guns of the State forcibly to take money from A, and give (some of) it to B, qualifies as "charity" at all. Charity is voluntary.

That isn't really what I meant by "charitable".....

_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson

Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 48,377
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

01 Aug 2014, 11:06 am

luanqibazao wrote:

Raptor wrote:

/\ Whatever, but my stand on this won't get any more charitable than it is which is already pretty charitable for a hateful conservative thug.

I don't think that using the guns of the State forcibly to take money from A, and give (some of) it to B, qualifies as "charity" at all. Charity is voluntary.

I think talking about the "guns of the state" to enforce taxation is a bit overstated. But even so, if taxation wasn't enforced you could say bye bye to fire and police protection, as well as the military. Are you willing to forgo any of that for the sake of the ideology that government shouldn't have the right to compel people to part with some of their money for the greater good?

_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

luanqibazao
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 754
Location: Last booth, Akston's Diner

02 Aug 2014, 3:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think talking about the "guns of the state" to enforce taxation is a bit overstated.

It's a statement of fact. If you refuse to pay taxes, eventually men with guns will come by to take you away and lock you in a cage. Facts don't go away if we decline to name them in clear terms.

Quote:

But even so, if taxation wasn't enforced you could say bye bye to fire and police protection, as well as the military.

Actually, many people have written on how such services could be financed non-coercively in a free society. "Coercive taxes, or no police and no military" is a false alternative. Historically, whenever government does not fulfill such functions, people quickly organize to carry them out privately. This shows that they are something which many people actually want and are willing to pay for.

You do know that there was no federal income tax before 1913? (Excepting a period during and following the Civil War.) And yet there were police, law courts, the army, the navy.

Quote:

Are you willing to forgo any of that for the sake of the ideology that government shouldn't have the right to compel people to part with some of their money for the greater good?

It's another false alternative. And the government does not have that right any more than an individual does. Do you think it would be proper if you walked up to someone you think is wealthy, took some of his money at gunpoint ? an amount arbitrarily determined by you ? and distributed some of that money to causes you arbitrarily deem deserving, keeping most for yourself? No? Then how is it different if there are ten of you, or a million of you? People in groups do not magically gain rights they lacked as individuals.

Page 1 of 2 [ 19 posts ] Go to page 1, 2 Next

Jump to:

But don't expect us to pay for it, Post Reply New Topic

But don't expect us to pay for it,