Season 8 of Doctor Who Discussion

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I for one loved the first episode and Clara's attempt to adjust to a new Doctor, it's handled a lot a better than Rose's reaction to the 10th Doctor. I also loved the design of the villain and how he is a sort of reflection of the Doctor.

i'm disappointed that steven moffat continues to be incapable of writing dialogue for female characters free from misandry and constant reminders of how stupid and useless they think men are, or in some cases that men aren't even people in the same category that women are (i.e. "People are apes--men are monkeys." implying that only women are fully people and men are less-than. it's tiresome and pathetic and makes me not able to care about the female characters and so the show means less to me now.

i really hope they fire him as head writer and find someone who can write female characters that aren't so loathesome and put some much needed heart and fun back into the stories. i miss russell t. davies.

Agree. I still thought it was decent though, but not great. I think Capaldi is going to do well though.

oh don't get me wrong, i love peter capaldi (his character from "in the loop" was hilarious), and i think he can bring a gravitas to the role of the doctor that has been lacking (no offense to matt smith: he is a talented actor and did the best he could with the scripts he was given)--i just wish steven moffat knew how to write women who aren't basically detestable, it makes it too hard to care about the stories when there is no real character arc development with the companions. something in the tone of the show has changed for the worse that i think will only be fixed if/when they boot moffat.

I'd like there to be a companion on par with Sarah Jane Smith, or Peri Brown.

I think it will be easy to get used to Peter Capaldi as the Doctor. However not a fan of the new opening credit sequence.

I don't know I actually kinda liked the interaction's between Jenny, Vastra, Clara, and the Doctor. I also like how Moffat turned a throwaway line from "Time of the Doctor" where Clara admits she has a crush on the Doctor and made it part of the conflict here. Where basically someone she thought she knew and really liked became an entirely different person. Also the whole men are apes thing was (in my opinion) a creative joke on Moffat's part and pointing out how smug these women might actually be. If your familiar with "The Snowmen" it's pointed out that Vastra might've inspired Sherlock Holmes. Who's to say that Holmes' smug personality wasn't inspired by her. Also her entire species is smug towards humans not just her so it makes sense. I think Jenny is smug because she knows what'll happen and how the views against lesbianism will fade away in the future. Victory like that would make me slightly smug as well.

It was about what I expected but I had hoped for a few more changes with Capaldi as The Doctor.

My problems with it are the problems I've had with most of New Who: the actual plot of the episode is shoved very much into the background and frequently stops dead for the "touchy-feely" scenes; the villains lack menace and are always defeated far too easily and the comedy isn't as funny, the characters aren't as likeable and the emotional bits aren't as profound as they think they are.

I saw "Guardians of the Galaxy" at the weekend and that succeeded for me in lots of ways that "Doctor Who" doesn't any more - it was charming and very funny and I left the cinema with a big stupid grin on my face (even if it had the most generic story possible )

Likewise. I was hoping for a slightly darker, more thought-provoking doctor, but it looks like it will just be the same silliness.

It's only his first time every Doctor takes a few to find their identity and stick out, Smith was a lot like Tennant in his first episode and Tennant, well Tennant felt a bit like Eccelston when he killed the leader of the villians in his first episode.

Perhaps, but with the note things left off on I was hoping we'd be able to continue on with it in some fashion. The last 2 seasons of Matt Smith's silliness and pretty boy antics got to be a bit much and I didn't enjoy it at all, but you're right that Capaldi has only had one episode... with presumably much of the same staff.

It was surprisingly enjoyable.
At first when they revealed the new doctor I was put off a bit, probably due to the age. However the way he 'saved the day' in the pilot episode, he might just become the next best Dr.

It will be nice to have a more "grown up" Doctor. I got pretty close to sick of all of the childish stuff that's been floating around recently (Don't get me wrong, I do like the Matt Smith Doctor, I just think it went a little too far into the juvenile direction). Enjoyed the first episode greatly, the second one a little less so, but I still liked it. Looking forward to seeing Robin Hood (A favorite literary character of mine)!

I believe the new Doctor will be a much darker and formidable one, which would be interesting to see. The second episode seemed to foreshadow that. I thought the side plot of Clara' s love life, and framing everything in teacher references annoying--turning the Impossible Girl into a schoolmarm. If that's how they write her off, it would seem like a real lack of ingenuity.

I strongly disagree with your analysis.

On Moffat's major female characters (so not:

- Amy - not detestable. OK, she was willing to sleep with another man on the night before her wedding, but she was very compassionate (see "The Beast Below", "Vampires Of Venice" and especially "Vincent And The Doctor" as examples), she was able to deal with problems on her own ("The Time Of Angels", "The Girl Who Waited"), and she was willing to die for Rory ("Amy's Choice", "The Angels Take Manhattan"). My problem with her is that her character development was essentially "became more boring". Her first series saw her as a major part in many episodes. In her second and third, although she often had a lot to do, she usually did it in a really boring way - the exceptions being "The Angels Take Manhattan" and of course "The Girl Who Waited".

- River. I don't find her detestable at all. I was disappointed by who she turned out to be, but she was a very caring person who was also willing to kill the Silence and Daleks. I dislike the paradox that meant she spent nearly half her life in prison for a crime she didn't commit and was dependent on The Doctor for freedom.

- Clara. Before this series she was boring and occasionally objectified, but this time around she has been fantastic. I am amused by "companion on a par with Peri" as if there's been a companion worse than Peri in New Who (except Adam and maybe Mickey). Honestly, she's going on for my favourite companion now.

- Vastra. Lesbian Silurian working as a detective in Victorian London pursuing social justice, and you hate her because she, like her whole species, calls humans "apes" and makes one joke about men being monkeys? She obviously loves Jenny, she puts up with a society that hates her and fights crime, focusing on murderers and rapists. I can forgive her casual misandry when in all female company.

- Jenny. WTF is there to hate about Jenny? Aside from being married to aforementioned Silurian, she's sweet as anything. She's an unprejudiced individual, in an interspecies homosexual marriage despite being Victorian.

I find it very hard to dislike any of them now that Clara is actually being allowed to be a companion. And that's before we get onto Nancy, Reinette, Sally Sparrow, Craig's girlfriend*, the nurse in the minotaur episode**, Kate Stewart, the Moment, the mother and daughter in The Doctor The Widow And The Wardrobe, Tasha Lem, and the two soldiers in Enter The Dalek.

* theoretically a Gareth Roberts creation but I'm sure Moffat had a big hand too because Roberts isn't a very good writer (though I liked his rewrite of Shada)
** also not a Moffat creation or every officially written by Moffat

I could understand if you'd complained about a lack of meaningful character development for women, particularly before Clara's breakthrough these last few weeks, but detestable female characters? Have I let my love of the show blind me to this? If so, tell me why you hate Amy/River/Clara/Vastra/Jenny and I'll respond, humbly retracting as necessary.

Please excuse my obsessive compulsiveness, but the title is "Into the Dalek". Sorry.

I agree whole-heartedly with your views on the female characters, and I think it's going to be a snowy day in Pheonix before we see a character as pathetic as Peri again.

As to Steven Moffat: To my mind, his stuff tends to be hit and miss. A lot of his stuff lack the zip the Russel T. Davis stuff had.
But there are good things too, and when he does hit, it goes right out of the ballpark.
Weeping Angels, "Are you my Mummy?", and Vashta Nerada all spring to mind.