Feminist Victimhood Narrative

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One of the reasons I struggle to call myself a feminist is that, in feminist theory, there is this narrative that all women are oppressed under this vague, nefarious "patriarchy" that we constantly have to fight. Besides the fact that this concept of a patriarchy is not very well defined, it assumes that all women's experiences are the same. This is especially the case with the whole #YesAllWomen hashtag campaign and this notion of Shroedingers Rapist, which assumes that most if not all women are constantly fearing for their lives in day to day situations. Even among my feminist friends, they casually mention things like male entitlement to women's bodies, how men see women as inhuman fucktoys, how women are so impotent against patriarchy, etc. And most if this stuff is based on pure assumption, not fact.

Now I am aware that many feminists take into account that not all women think and feel this way, but I have noticed that a sizable portion of the movement involves this way of thinking. And I can't relate to it at all. I know I'm just speaking from experience, but I don't find constantly discussing how much of a victim I am very empowering and I'm far from oppressed. Not that I deny that many women are legitimately oppressed, but often the most "victimy" of these feminists tend to be pretty privileged.

How can feminists have a constructive discussion about actual transgressions against women without alienating or infantilising us?

The feminist movement truly started in the last century with Margaret Singer and the PILL and reproductive freedom. Setting the stage for the empowerment of women to escape the reproductive cycle, and enter into a level playing field for those individuals who do want to have a family, or simply want to enjoy their reproductive freedoms without the consequences that are obvious, in full potential effect.

Freedom for women is now won, and so easy for me to see now even compared to the 70 and 80's when I am in the competitive environment of the male and female 'battle' to gain 'love', with each other.

In a nutshell this women's power movement has even gone the other way in some ways, as I as believe it or not it's true, and yes can prove it in photos, am a 54 year old person who has an all encompassing special interest in dance, frequenting a Rave Dance Club almost every Thursday night for a little over a half of a year, with college age girls less than half my age.

I am happily married, so all I go for there is to continue to increase my skills as a creative free style dancer, but rarely does a dance night go past, where some likely intoxicated girl, does not approach in what they now call Booty Dancing where the female rear rubs up against the male front, if you've ever seen this new cultural phenomenon of females 'connecting' to males in dance.

Last Thursday night, a particularly aggressive, likely intoxicated, young lady, approached me in a very aggressive way with her hindquarters, addressing my lower front side, if you will, and as I tried to avoid the coming rubbing obstacle of her rear, by backing up, over a spilled drink I did not notice on the dance floor, I took a fairly nasty spill, falling back on some stairs of the slightly elevated dance floor, her cushioned on top of my 230 LBS or so of manhood to break her 'dainty' fall. Yeah, I still have nasty bruise on my hip as a result of that.

The thing here is, if I did this, which is beyond my wildest imagination or intention to a total female stranger on the dance floor, with my 'front' on her 'rear' like this, aggressively rubbing up and down, it now still could most definitely be considered sexual assault.

Do you really think, anyone would take me serious if I went up to the hourly paid security dudes and complained about this. Heck no, they would roll their eyes, but not so, if a male did it to a female, or they could get in really big trouble too.

So yeah, all of this I don't have any rights stuff in feminism is true, but in a time now gone past, where now women have the right and cultural right to sexual abuse men, on the dance floor, if they so choose; no not really legally but the reality is, sometimes cultural standards do trump laws, in the real life, of dance halls.

I have Muslim women and girls that are friends from countries like Pakistan, and they still cannot leave the home without the adult supervision of a male, with veil covered faces and of course covered bodies from head to toe, fully.

There are stovetop bride burnings of wives who don't please their husbands with Dowry Value, and so many more incredible examples of basic human rights taken away, even to the result of death.

So, compared to that, if I have to endure a few booty calls, I do not want to respond too, metaphorically speaking, on the dance floor of life, I will endure it, as to never ever never ever, have women treated like they are in these other countries where truly they are valued as lower than cattle.

Feminism already wins the battle, and truly the battle of the sexes is being further won by women everyday, as now they are not afraid to fully embrace both their feminine and masculine elements as much more fully true human beings.

Meanwhile, the guys who are so damn afraid of grace as a feminine element of real power in love, and even martial arts, if they feel like they might need to truly physically defend themselves one day, are still substantially in numbers engaging others as bantering homophobes, talking about who or who is not gay, if they display a little artistic talent, or grace in the game of life.

Well, when I first started dancing at my metro Rave club, my ballet/martial art mix of dancing, did get some challenge from the homophobic audience, but now that they have more fully seen the martial arts part of grace in what I do on the dance floor, they fist bump me, and high five me.

And yes, the booty calls do come in metaphor almost every week, as there is something about a man who is unafraid to embrace his masculine and feminine element that inspire women wild, at the core of human being.

I'm teaching the younger guys how to be real men on the dance floor, and truly some are watching and learning to be men, of the balanced masculine and feminine kind of full human beings.

It's about a balance. Women, overall now, have conquered patriarchal polarizing gender ideals and found there's, in masculine and feminine balance, and of course there are still many exceptions to this, as nothing in life, true life, human life in being, is a simple math equation to be solved.

Now the ball is in the Man court. But so far, the ball is being dropped in that court. It's still easy to see, in the metaphorical dance of life, in the oldest battle of all, the battle of the sexes; the core element of human conflict, overall, along with conflicts of subsistence and territory.

Human and mother nature, is never truly one to escape, as Mother Nature at Human Nature Core does rule humans as master, and we are 'her' slaves or servants whether we like to think we are or not.

Just my opinion of course. Just saying..;)

One of the reasons I don't identify as a "feminist" is that I don't consider myself either a "victim" or "oppressed."

Modern feminist theory has replaced 'patriarchy' with 'kyriarchy,' which is the nesting and networking pattern of unearned privilege that some people have simply by virtue of being born who they are. It addresses race, socioeconomic status, and disability as well as gender. In other words, your average white woman has it better than your average black man, and a black, disabled woman born into a poor family has a pretty damn rough life no matter how hard she works, Oprah notwithstanding.
It also argues for women's right to control when, and if, they will have children, for the equal valuing of women's work, etc.


No, it does not. See above.


No. It assumes that most women go out of their ways to avoid 'dangerous' situations and to avoid being afraid, in ways that men are not sociologically expected to.

Go peruse some of the threads in the 'adult' or 'love and dating' sections for examples of that. As for impotence, we wouldn't be pissing so many people off if we weren't making some waves.
'feminists' and 'women' are not mutually exclusive groups. Get into a discussion with smart, mature feminists and you will have a smart, mature feminist discussion.

While i discount neither feminist theory, nor the idea that purveying mysoginy still exists today, I suppose that with all such things, you are more likely to keenly feel the effects of institutionalised oppressions (sexism included) depending signifcantly on your socio-economic background.

Well-to-do-women simply aren't expected to justify themselves to the same extent that poor women are expected to.

A well off woman doesn't have to take that job at HOOTERS just to pay her college fees or rent.

QFT.
She also gets more of the benefit of police protection should her boyfriend or spouse become abusive.

My auntie has a doctorate in women's studies. She seems to think women are now treated equally under law and allowed to express themselves as well as any man [under law].

She's never made any deal about it for as long as I've known her (which has been forever). I've been surprised about this new feminist movement going on online, as I thought women [and minorities too] are treated equally under the law.

(Unless you live in some ret*d derka derka country.)

Your aunt isn't the be all and end all of female experience. Equality under the eyes of the law and freedom of expression arent the sum of all feminist grievances.

There is still legitimate, unresolved issues prevalent in western countries like proportional representation in politics and business, representation and portrayal in the popular media and the pay gap. If you are a woman you are still less likely to get the same pay for the same job.

I would go out on a limb and assume your aunt's position means she doesn't personally for whatever reason, view these things as important as other women would.



Wow. How racist is that?

Equality under the law is all citizens can ask for. Anything else encroaches upon civil liberties.

Proportional representation: last I heard, women can be politicians just the same as any man (my aunt was also one); the same with businesses -- women can start a business the same as anyone else. If there's disproportion, it's not because of equal rights.

Popular media is popular media and it's "free". They can show whatever they want within the bounds of the law, as much as they want. Start up your own form of media if you don't like what's on.

I don't know about pay differences, so I couldn't comment.

My aunt's position is one of equal rights.

Yeah, and I'm super racist to derka derka ret*ds that make women objects that can't do anything but pop out babies and aren't allowed to wear anything they want. Call me racist there, and I'd be proud of it.

The legal framework may be in place, but the institutionalised attitudes that obfuscates women's efficacy in politics and in business are still endemic; the perception within organised groups that political parties and business boardrooms are, and should remain 'old boy's clubs'.

Furthermore, I would argue that this not only hurts women but also those groups beyond the list of usual suspects that are associated with government and business leadership. Ethnic minorities, the disabled, people from low socio economic backgrounds.


Same as above applies. Again, i am referring less about legal infrastructure and more about purveying attitudes and culture. This sort of dogma that nothing else matters as long as laws are written, however poorly enforced are all that matters is a nonsense. It is counter intuitive to even beginning to challenge the cultures and attitudes that enable sexism, racism, ableism, classism, etc and so fourth.



Give me a break. You as well as i do that the whole 'derka derka' thing is a racist trope invented by the creators of South park to tar all arab people with. You don't get to side with women on one hand as an excuse to be a racist douche on the other. The two counter each other out.

Last edited by thomas81 on 09 Oct 2014, 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/ ... s-rape-ok/ <---- This applies to all men according to their ideology! Also If your a white male you are evil and should be ashamed of being born white and male because your an oppressor and a rapist, even if you haven't done anything.

In other words....

Businesses can do whatever they want as long as they follow the law. If they want a trans only club higher up, it's their deal. Freedom. Government organizations often apply different standards though, like hiring a certain number of disabled people.

Yes, yes, women aren't being portrayed how you like them to be. Write to the people that make the shows and other forms of media. They'll change it if they think it'll sell. Again, freedom. My sister is totally cool with how women are portrayed in media -- though I'm not happy with the way males often are (oversexed emo sissies), but hey, if society likes watching that stuff, good for them.

Wait, so you're treating me as if I'm a certain way based on a certain phrase that may or may not mean something specific? Prejudice! Joking aside, I use derka derka to refer to typical traditional Muslim society. That is an example of a society that's not equal.

Treated equally under the law is feminism, it is civil rights. Anything else encroaches upon civil liberties.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPok3q932rk[/youtube]

I think the concept of the "patriarchy" is problematic. I generally don't like catchall concepts, it doesn't reflect the complex world we live in. If you want to alienate people create a dividing line.

I think victimhood in general is bad, even for actual victims. It can become a perpetual cycle. Those that want to be free will refuse to be a victim, even when oppressed.

I think feminist should be welcomed into the humanist community. That is not to say that they are not feminist as well.

I don't think feminists have go a monopoly on the whole victimhood thing, though. I think there is also a "Femiphobia" and that also smacks of victimhood at times.

The thing that just gets me is supposed feminists wanting people to change how they behave in matters that don't have anything to do with equality in the justice/social system and democratic process.

Anything else is in the domain of private affairs.