German brother and sister/couple want incest law removed.

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Anubis
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07 Mar 2007, 4:43 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6424937.stm

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Patrick, who is 30 years old, was adopted and, as a child, he lived in Potsdam.

He did not meet his mother and biological family until he was 23. He travelled to Leipzig with a friend in 2000, determined to make contact with his other relatives.


Lawyer Endrik Wilhelm
He met his sister Susan for the first time, and according to the couple, after their mother died, they fell in love.


Personally, my opinion that whilst weird, and probably bad for genetics, it is their choice, and it harms no-one, with the possible exception of their bloodline. Giving that it was under exceptional circumstances, the brother and sister had not been raised as siblings.


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Starbuline
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07 Mar 2007, 4:50 am

I saw something similar on TV, and I don't see the harm in it.



Davidufo
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07 Mar 2007, 7:11 am

Anubis wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6424937.stm

Personally, my opinion that whilst weird, and probably bad for genetics, it is their choice, and it harms no-one, with the possible exception of their bloodline. Giving that it was under exceptional circumstances, the brother and sister had not been raised as siblings.

I agree. If they are not hurting anyone else then .. well, it's up to them.
(the only consideration would be that their children may have some problems because of it. Like not developing physically as expected)



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Alaric
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07 Mar 2007, 7:45 am

I concur. And genetic problems are only an issue if they plan to have children (and frankly, with just a single generation, it's unlikely to be a serious problem anyway).


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lowfreq50
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07 Mar 2007, 8:06 am

Even if their kids don't have genetic problems, they will have to deal with a horrible social stigma.


Otherwise, they're simply two people reveling in each other's pervasive trauma disorder.



tallfreak
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07 Mar 2007, 10:16 am

Although I don't have a problem with it socially my only problem is the kids. Their two kids both have disabilities most likely due to genetic issues. I think it's unfair to the children.

I did know someone that married his adopted sister in Tennessee. It was legal and no genetic issues there. However it was in the Tri-Cities area and the social stigma was unbearable and they ended up moving to Atlanta and got a fresh start there.

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hyperbolic
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07 Mar 2007, 10:32 am

I read that there are biological factors that normally prevent siblings from wanting to mate.



Awesomelyglorious
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07 Mar 2007, 11:24 am

xon wrote:
I read that there are biological factors that normally prevent siblings from wanting to mate.

There are, they just do not work under the conditions given as they require that the siblings grow up as part of the same family unit.



jimservo
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07 Mar 2007, 11:47 am

I strongly oppose.

ADDENDUM: The reasons are stated by others in the topic.



Last edited by jimservo on 07 Mar 2007, 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Davidufo
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07 Mar 2007, 11:50 am

jimservo wrote:
I strongly oppose.


...why?



Flagg
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07 Mar 2007, 11:51 am

jimservo wrote:
I strongly oppose.


8O

For once me and Jimservo take the same side...

The problem is they are going to create children massive genetic defects who will have a social stigma to boot.


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Davidufo
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07 Mar 2007, 12:03 pm

True True....

Parents should want the best for their kids...
(in the same way as making sure you don't smoke/take drugs when pregnant as it harms the unborn child)

Unless they adopt children, they risk:

(First-generation inbred individuals are more likely to show physical and health defects, including):

reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability
increased genetic disorders
fluctuating facial asymmetry
lower birth rate
higher infant mortality
slower growth rate
smaller adult size
loss of immune system function

:arrow: Wikipedia - Inbreeding

:arrow: More information...



jimservo
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07 Mar 2007, 12:13 pm

I would worry also that people will at some point in the future use this as an precedent for marrying (biologically related) family members. I'm not saying this is what this particular brother and sister are doing. Clearly that is not the case. But unfortunately, political groups with unrelated causes will sometimes take advantage of exceptions to create attempt new rules.



Flagg
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07 Mar 2007, 12:15 pm

jimservo wrote:
I would worry also that people will at some point in the future use this as an precedent for marrying (biologically related) family members. I'm not saying this is what this particular brother and sister are doing. Clearly that is not the case. But unfortunately, political groups with unrelated causes will sometimes take advantage of exceptions to create attempt new rules.


I don't want to know what kind of new rules this makes.

If your "brother" and "sister" merely because your adopted relatives I don't mind but this is just frackin' creepy.


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07 Mar 2007, 5:26 pm

Here's my take on it, for what it's worth.

I can't really pick a side. My gut feeling/human reaction is no, but there are several logical reasons why they should be allowed.

On one hand: They are both consenting adults, and it should be their choice. They did not grow up together, so while they're related biologically, they do not have the typical sibling mindset. If they don't plan on having kids, it will only harm themselves - and then only socially.

On the other hand: If they want to have children, there may be defects. Furthermore, even if the children don't have defects, they'll be shunned by society as the inbred kids. Also, as some others have pointed out, their case will probably used as a point in any other couple who wants to do the same thing. Also, the after-their-mother-died thing seems odd to me. It's not like they loved each other before and just didn't want to tell her. They fell in love after she died. I don't know, it just doesn't seem right to me.


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headphase
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07 Mar 2007, 5:51 pm

Oh dear! Their children might even be aspies!