My 5yr old son and socializing

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Ok so I'm pretty sure many here can relate. My son is 5 and in senior kindergarten (his second year of full time kindergarten). He gets along with kids in his class he even had 5 or 6 of them come to his birthday party in the summer.

Quick background: Every morning when I drop him off at school he runs around by himself, he's never been able to approach others. Socializing for him, like most on the spectrum is hard to say the least. He's never introduced himself to any child at school or at a playground without his EA introducing him (or us at a playground). Within a couple of minutes he normally walks away slowly frowning.

Anyway this morning after I got him dressed he told me in a bit of a cry that he has no friends (I'm his dad, he doesn't usually talk about these things to mommy). I sat him on my lap and told him you have plenty of friends, what about the boys that came to your party? I see you hangout with them sometimes. He shook his head no. He said everything I do is always wrong. Hearing that line broke my heart. It's probably one of the first times he's recognized that some things he does is considered strange or different to others. I told him that's not true at all and that you can't possibly play wrong. There's no such thing as playing wrong or they wouldn't call it playing. I told him we can talk more about it tonight if he'd like to.

So here I am, needing some pointers on ways to guide him. He wants to play, he tries to play, I think at times he doesn't a) understand the rules of a game and b) wants the game to work the way he thinks its suppose to. I want him to know that everyone has quirks and no one is perfect. He doesn't like to talk about these things long, it's usually short conversations before he feels embarrassed even when talking to me, so anything I say needs to be sort of short and straight forward.

Any words of wisdom? I know there's nothing I can do to just make him start interacting with other kids, that's part of who he is and a long term goal, but I don't want him thinking everything he does is 'wrong'. That's not a good feeling so I need ways to ensure him it's not.

Truthfully, at age 5, kids don't usually know how to follow rules to games and/or want to rules to suit them. Even kids who are "normal." Even the most "normal" kid at age 5 can't, for example, play Monopoly for long without having a fit.

Yep...I would continue to emphasize that there's nothing "wrong" in playing, unless he's hurting other kids.

I'm glad he has your "ear"--that he's confiding in you. That's an essential first step in anything having to do with helping your kid.

At least he's not hitting other kids! At least he understands "boundaries" in that sense.

Maybe you could set up a "playdate" for some kids in his class?

Thanks, he definitely doesn't hurt or hit other kids. He's only ever had one incident of that at a birthday party last December at a big indoor play center. We'll just say 100 screaming kids in tight quarters is not for him.

We've done a play date with one boy in class over the summer (who also came to his party). He's kind of the cool kid in class that every child likes. He lived just around the corner of us and then moved last month but he's still going to their school. The play date went.... ok. See many other kids his age play video games but my son has zero interest in them because he finds them too hard to play. If something seems hard to him he's not doing it. This boy wanted to just play games day, I ended up having to shut it off of course and made them do other things but he got bored quick.

But point taken, I should try to be a bit more proactive with the other parents and see if I can arrange more for him.

Perhaps you could get some insight from your son's teachers. Ask them what they've noticed and how you might offer him comfort, support, and understanding. There could have been one or more incidents that your son is focused on (or hyper-focused on) that you could help him with, and with the teaching team's input, you won't have to drill him for more information that he may not be able to provide. They might enable you to get right to the point with him.

Just be sure they understand you're not blaming them for any misdeeds, but that you're grateful to them as an extension of your eyes and ears.

My guy is in a HFA preschool, he just turned 5 last week, he is the same. He won't go up to other kids. However he does talk about them and cares when they are not in school. It is just engaging them that is a struggle. I worry about kindergarten where he won't just be with HFA kids. Since he can read they have already started him in Kinder circle time, but that is so structured that it isn't an issue.

I agree w KimD, I would go to the teacher. S/he will know the dynamic better than anyone. It might be a simpler fix than it seems to him. 5 yrs are usually not as different adverse, it gets bad 2nd and 3rd grade. Once you know what to work on you can practice with him.

Also, there might be other ways you can help. What is the cool IP for the class, Angry Birds, Spiderman, Thomas. Get him some gear, that will help start some conversations. I know buying your way out a problem is a bit shallow, but sometimes you just want your kids to have that little extra push. It might get the kids to come up to him and start the conversations which is the really hard part for our kids.

If play dates are not great for him, how about activity based play dates. The zoo, bowling, trains, the new Big Hero Six movie. Not so much pressure on him to perform, but the two kids get shared memories. If you have pictures of his Bday party with the other kids, I would go over them with him. My guy loves to see pictures and you can do your own impromptu social story about the event. It reminds him about having friends and also give you an opportunity to practice saying hi to kids in a non stressful situation. Our preK provides a sheet of all the kids in the class picture and name and we use that to go over saying hi to people. He will now say hi to other kids and teachers, some of the time.

My daughter had similar problems when she was that age. As others have said, check with teachers to see if they have any recommendations, but here are another couple of ideas for you:

Start practicing some of the basic social skills at home - like you said introductions, learning to say hi, learning to remember peoples names. He won't get them without practice and the more the better.

Have you considered he has a Non-Verbal Learning Disability? I never even knew such a thing existed until our daughter was diagnosed - then we were able to help her learn about tone of voice, eye contact, personal space and body language. It took several years but eventually she mastered all of it and I am sure your son can too.

Don't give up - you are doing the best you can and showing your son that you can be counted on as someone who loves and supports him goes a long way.

Someone else recommended to me that I should be asking him the questions of why he feels this way instead of assuring him that he's not playing wrong and that he has friends. I tend to agree, I think I jumped too quick to respond as my first instinct to try to just cheer him up. I got to remind myself to ask him why? Why he thinks everything he does is wrong. Why he thinks he has no friends to better understand his side.

Thank you! Well he's quite verbal so he wouldn't qualify for that I'm sure, even though a lot of what he says needs clarifying still and is grammar is out of whack. There's no doubt though that he talks very loudly, always a notch or two higher than normal. I'm constantly reminding him I'm right beside him. He's had his hearing tested with no problems so I'm certain he just needs some help there.

So, first off, it sounds like your son needs pragmatic (social) speech therapy and social skills classes - those are things that the school should provide (if you are in the US - if not, let us know where you are so others in your area can chime in.)

To get those, you need to make a request in writing that his speech and social skills be assessed. Keep in mind that for a highly verbal child, the actual scores don't matter - it is the degree of difference between his social speech use and his ability to speak and use language. Don't delay in doing this; there are huge gains to be made that are harder to do later (not impossible, but my son had a miserable time in later elementary school.)

Second, I used to "script" for my son. We'd practice: I'd say, OK, when you see that kid, go up to him and say "Hi, my name is ____________, what's your name?" First I would do it for him, then I'd have him practice it on me. For kids he already knows, observe them to figure out how these particular kids approach each other to join in play. Explicitly teach your son what they are doing - but you have to be careful to teach him the way kids are ACTUALLY doing it, not the way adults want kids to be doing it.

Here is more information on pragmatic speech http://www.asha.org/public/speech/devel ... ragmatics/ (my son was hyperverbal, when they told us he needed speech therapy I was shocked. His vocabulary and usage tested at a college level in 4th grade...but he still didn't know how to use all those words to connect with people.)

Alex made a series of videos on social skills that are posted here: although they are geared towards teens and adults, they'll give you an idea of one way social skills can be taught. See especially http://www.wrongplanet.net/article438.html but also http://www.wrongplanet.net/article442.html

The good news is that your son has realized there is a problem and has defined it accurately. He knows he is supposed to be socializing (not all kids on the spectrum do at this age) and he understands the feedback kids are giving him that lead him to the conclusion that he's "doing it wrong." (again, not all kids on the spectrum can tell) These are two definite strengths you will be able to build on, heartbreaking as they are to hear.

I was thinking the same thing. Even though it's tough to hear your son realizing that he's a little different from other kids, it actually shows he has great social awareness and a lot of potential to do well in the long run.
My son did not have a diagnosis in kindergarten, and never learned anyone's name the entire year. To get other students' attention he would shout, "Hey kid!" at them.

LOL, DS still does this in his teens - most kids are used to it at this point. Or he'll describe them - there was a girl in his class he was friends with who was called "pink-haired girl" and her friend "girl with crutches" for at least the duration of "girl with crutches'" rehabilitation. Not sure how often he did this to their face, but always when he was talking about them.

Their Xbox screen names, though - THOSE he remembers immediately. (BTW, DS was the same way with video games and pretty much any kind of game for a fair amount of time...and then somewhere a switch flipped. He still doesn't like analog games, but video games are his "thing." now. It's a socially acceptable outlet for obsessive behavior...)

At his young age, he does need help from you to get him to play with different kids, and he may click with a few of them, such as the ones who also don't fit in easily, but not necessarily autistic. If he wasn't interested in social interaction, I would say leave him be to play alone, but since he is, he needs help to initiate socializing and make friends. It is probably easiest to make friends if he plays with one kid at a time, since the kids have only each other in a partnership, without third, fourth, fifth persons being able to "grouperize" social norms amongst themselves, then singling out your son as the one who is not normal.

I still don't think telling him there's no "playing wrong" when he doesn't harm anybody is WRONG.

I would gently encourage him to try to talk to the other kids. I would, like a previous poster stated, get something to grab the other kids' attention. Maybe even play "role play" games with him pertaining to how to communicate to other kids.

I wish I were there, so I could really assess whether he needs intensive therapy or not. Sometimes, kids don't benefit from intensive therapy---they benefit from a bit of a "push' from parents. Not rough push, a gentle push. We don't want the kid to think there's "something wrong with him" too early. Otherwise, it might permeate his world view.

There is a balance between guarding self-esteem and looking at it from an adult standpoint vs. looking it from the perspective of the kids he is trying to play with. In their minds, he is indeed playing "wrong" b/c he is is not following the rules of the game that the children have decided upon or that are de facto standard.

My son at 9 still does not want it badly enough to compromise, but if one were to have a child that does, I would explain that it is similar to how he might (if he is a rigid rule type child) be upset when someone breaks the rules in another context. To the kids with whom he is he is attempting to play, it is essentially the same thing. They don't want to try it his way. They want to play how the group agreed to play.

The choice from their perspective is play the right (our) way, or do not play. In a setting with only two kids or with a kid with a lot of charisma, a child might be able to shape the rules actively. Ideally, it would be with reciprocity and not just telling the other kid/s how to do it. These dynamics may be too complicated for the autistic child in question to navigate. He is only 5.

(My kid has yet to succeed in this b/c he expects other kids to do things his way, but he will not bend himself. so that is my knowledge basis, in addition to trying to navigate kids play as a child, myself)

Edited to add: Sometimes the issue can be that the child wants to play "the right way" and can't. If that is the case the OP will need to practice the school yard games in question with him.

Also, I wanted to clarify that I don't think there is a right way to play, but the other kids will, and while softening the explanation is not a bad thing, I think that at some point, if not at 5, you have to be somewhat honest about the issue to maintain credibility.

I see what you're saying, ASDMommy.

Especially as a kid gets to be 6 or 7, the "rules" of the game become quite important. A kid would tend to be excluded if he/she was reluctant to play "by the rules."

As a parent whose son's social deficits weren't addressed until he was 10 - I'd say therapy at a younger age is significantly less likely to make a child feel stigmatized than therapy when they are painfully aware of what the issues are - plus it is easier to make gains while the developmental gap is smaller.

By the time my son's social gap was a serious enough problem to warrant attention by the school (by serious, I mean life-threatening, which is what it can take to get a school's attention if a parent doesn't know to advocate) it took 3 years of intensive therapy for him AND myself and DH to get him back on track, and he hated every minute of it. Contrast this with my friends' kids who graduated Early Intervention into GenEd kindergarten - I had no idea until I was in a conversation about interventions and their parents told me. They are still "quirky," but their quirks don't get in their way - which I think is a good goal.

Good social skills therapy should be nothing more than helping a child analyze what is going on and respond to it appropriately - no matter the child's age. Yes, you can do this without a trained therapist...but, as someone who did this without realizing it - if I had it to do over again, we'd have gotten services as early as we could. Even though I was doing a lot of things right by intuition (e.g. scripting,) I missed so, so much.

Yes, there are therapists and therapists: you need to find someone whose interventions make sense to you for your particular child. For instance, if the therapy you are offered seems more like dog training than intervention to you, I'd start researching other options.

It's true: the earlier the intervention, the better the results in the vast majority of cases.

To me, from what the OP has described, it would seem as if he just needs a bit of encouragement, and perhaps "social skills" training.

I wonder if the kid's really "just shy." That could happen as well. He seems like a "passive" sort.