Opinions on article about raising AS kids, please?

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My wife IM'd me a link to this article this morning:

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/lates ... autism.ece

What is your opinion of the various points raised? Do you think the article (&/or Grandin's book) has the right idea?

Thank you!

I am so sick of Temple Grandin couching her personal experience and subjective opinions as 'objective truth for all autistics'. Sure, as an autistic woman, she knows better than many NTs, but that doesn't mean she knows everything there is to know about autism. And her 'blame the victim' attitude towards autistics who can't live independently is really hurtful.

I'm not still living with my parents at 26 because they let me act autistic and play video games all the time. I'm living with my parents at 26 because, despite my lack of language delay and milder social issues than Temple Grandin, my executive function is a great deal more impaired than hers.

The first three seem mostly reasonable in theory (though I'm not sure I like the author's specific examples). I'm questioning the basis for the 4th one though. For me gaming has been one of my principle interests my entire life. It's a hobby and interest that brings me fulfillment and comfort. There are certain types of games that I would probably advise against*, but I see no problem with intense interest in video games as a whole any more than I see a problem with intense interest in any other hobby.

Autistic brains have a tendency to hyper-fixate on all interests, not just games. So why is she singling out games as the only interest to be discouraged?

*Namely the kind that rely on slot-machine-esque mechanics and psychology, as it can be especially addictive. So primarily mobile games and MMOs.

Last edited by gamerdad on 23 Sep 2015, 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I would warn about doing a 180 reversal from letting him do what wants all the time to managing him 24/7. We do need our time and sometimes a lot of time to decompress from being bombarded by sensory overload. I would not put him in any social situation just for the sake of putting him in a social situation. I would help him find people who share his special interests.

What she says is what my parents did with me growing up. They started doing therapy with me when I was a baby. I basically wasn't allowed to be an aspie and I always had responsibilities and expected to follow the rules. If I didn't get something, my mom found a way to teach me. I wasn't allowed to talk about the same things, I was made to do other things, I wouldn't have been allowed to be alone in my room all day, my obsessions were taken away, my mom refused to read a same story to me over and over and would make me pick out a different story for her to read me. Temple was pretty much raised the same way as me. She also seemed to have gotten tough love from her mother and it worked. My mom wanted me to be independent and get married and have kids so she worked for it. I still collect disability and could never go to college and get any degree but my mom is still proud of me.

I know lot of people on the autism spectrum don't really like her because she is bias about how autistic kids should be raised and how we should all be and she seems to think anyone can over come it if you work hard with them. But I think she is right about what she says about helping kids with autism.

ETA: Please know I'm not trying to whine with this post...my life today IS NOT as I'm describing my past below and I feel I have a whole future ahead of me even at the age of 48. Thanks.

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Being "pushed" probably did indeed force me to be an adult who could, for example, hold down jobs...with unbelievable stress culminating in confusion and near-suicidal depression due to ongoing anxiety about communication and so on, and with ongoing feelings of failure, worry about whether you're currently "passing" or someone is guessing you're "weird," and with migraines by mid-day a couple/few times a week due to sensory issues being blasted at me all. Day. Long. (Granted this may not be true of every person (I want to be clear on that), but isn't that the point - that making such sweeping statements, then having parents utilize the "methods" with the child helpless to resist, is a bad idea?)

The "pushing" taught me, very well, that who I am is just unacceptable, but totally hiding every single aspect of myself to the point that it hurt me physically (sensory) and psychologically, would make things easier...for others. Also, pushing into "more social" and loud arenas taught me very, very well how to detach almost entirely and disassociate, to the point that someone cold have been sticking a needle in me and I wouldn't blink - I actually learned how not to feel, almost go into a hypnotic state, in self-defense against the onslaught. Errr yay? Success!

This is success? In the vein of: others don't need to worry about or "support" me via SSI or whatever, sure. It's a success for them: total strangers.

For me? Utter pain for decades to the point of just wanting to end it all. (I now work from home.)

Yay for pushed-autistic-person "success." Success meaning: you shut up about stuff, you are who others want you to be, and you don't cost anybody any money.

For some of us, I'd be willing to guess many of us but I don't want to state that unilaterally as that's only an opinion based on other autistic people I've spoken to, pushing this way does. Not. Reduce. The. ACTUAL. ISSUES. It just doesn't. It hides them (for a while, and only sometimes). But they're still there. Unless some miracle beyond the scope of known science has occurred.Temple Grandin, an autistic person, suggested this stuff???

Am I just misunderstanding? This is, after all, just my assessment based on that one article, which obviously paraphrased. I have never actually read anything Grandin has written. I don't want to judge Grandin, the person, based on something someone else wrote about something she said.

My bottom line here is: I don't believe these sweeping statements are any more helpful than any other sweeping statements about autism have been in the past. Since when have we ever all fit one mold so that one particular set of rules would work for all of us? We are by very definition different...even many times, from each other.

Last edited by NowhereWoman on 23 Sep 2015, 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Actually, NowehereWoman, your post makes perfect sense. Instead of forcing Aspergian children to fit in by way of pushing them into situations, I think that it would be more beneficial for parents and Aspergian children if the children were allowed to grow and flourish in their own unique ways and in ways that suit them best. I do like what Temple Grandin has been saying about animals, though.
Oh, and working at home sounds great. When I become a successful author, I'm definitely going to work at home.

Exactly, I mean we are by our very definition unique...shouldn't each of us be felt out to determine what will actually work not just as a Band-Aid, and not just for other people but also for us?

By the way, I'm a writer (by profession). If you need any help breaking into this particular arena, I would love to try to help you, so PM me and let me know!

This is SUCH a good point (IMO).

Hinting, intimating or outright stating that "this miracle turnaround worked for Autistic Person X because of some extra-special mojo" is part of what drives parents to DAN, hyperbolic chambers, behavior "extinguishing" and mummifying kids into quilts that don't allow them to breathe properly. Because I mean, if their own kids don't turn out to be "miracles!! !" (or, more offensively, "successes") like Grandin or McCarthy's son (I wonder about that story...I mean come on) or Bill Gates (DXd officially by Dr. Google, apparently), then the parents must be doing something wrong. Or not doing enough.

It's cruel and I don't just mean to the kids but also to their parents who wring their hands in desperation wondering why they haven't managed to achieve NT-styled miracles with their own kids...when all along the "miracles" might just be people who have more strengths in certain areas anyway.

It's like the mother of a paraplegic believing her child didn't grow up to be Jackie Joyner-Kersee because of something oblique, abstract and entirely unproven unscientifically that the mother failed to know about and do. I don't see that this line of thinking does anyone any favors.

JMO. And I'm not saying not to teach autistic children. It's a given that autistic children can and should be taught. Autistic children, generally, grow up and learn more and mature, in their own ways, just as NT children grow up and learn more and mature. Hope that's clear.

Also I'm not saying what this article author states Grandin said has no merit at all. Of course exposure to social situations, for example, can work, if done sensitively, for some autistic people.

I don't understand why it seems to be coming down to either pushing or not pushing, in many of the above comments. What about pushing a little but consistently every day, in ways tailored to the specific kid, and while allowing for plenty of rest? It doesn't have to be either doing nothing and letting the autism reign absolute in the kid's and his family's life, or forcing the kid to pretend to be NT.

My 12yo son is autistic, and we never asked him to act NT, but at the same time, he never got away with such basics as going to school, doing his homework, learning to read and so on. We also always took him with us wherever we went (shopping, on holidays, and so on), because that's how families work in our mind. We dealt with it if and when he got overwhelmed, but we never assumed beforehand that he would be unable to go somewhere or do something. Now he's a kid who actively *wants* to go places, to try new things, to visit overcrowded museums, to ride rollercoasters, to travel to foreign countries, and so on. He complains when *I* am too overwhelmed to take him places two days in a row during his holidays with me, because I need to rest a day at home between two outings

I'm a bit shocked about the video games thing, though. Playing video games has been a big help to my son in many ways, so if the kid is done with his homework and other things, and still has free time, I don't see why he couldn't play more than one hour a day if he feels like it.

I don't think that's what we're suggesting.




I don't think any of us are suggesting these are the only two options. I think we've all pretty much said the opposite, that a universal "just do X regarding pushing" is a bad idea BECAUSE all autistic children are different. I definitely don't see anyone suggesting "letting the autism 'reign' absolute" (although that's an interesting choice of words, suggesting a not uncommon view, that either autism will "win" or non-autism will "win," which doesn't make much sense to me, autism being a part of the person...I could be misinterpreting, so please correct me) - not sure where you're getting that. I'll re-read, including what I wrote.

And there you have it. You believe you've brought him out of his autistic shell or what-not by taking him places, but at least from what you've written here, it is actually his personality already...so it's more a case (again, just opinion based on only a paragraph or two) of, you lucked out having a son who WOULD be willing to do what you believe has stimulated him to want to get out and explore. From what you're saying here, it's the opposite: he already had a personality that was willing to get out and explore.

I can't say with 100% certainty as I don't know you and your son personally, but I would bet some pretty heavy internet dollars that if this weren't already in his makeup, all the natural and organic go with the flow, follow the family all about attitude in the world wouldn't mean you wouldn't have a screaming child curled up in a ball at the supermarket if you'd had an autistic child whose tolerance level was lower than your son's and you'd exposed him to the level of going-out-and-about that comes naturally to you.

Again, these are only opinions. I don't know you or your family and I don't presume to know more about your son than you do. So take these observations for what they're worth.

The second post is basically, "Temple Grandin should shut up", which implies a strong disagreement with the idea of pushing at all.

Another poster said:



Again, that's saying that pushing basically equals not allowing the child to be his autistic self.

Your own post seems to clearly condemn pushing:





That expression was a direct reference to the article. In it, she says:

I think it was good advice about the gentle pushing and getting the child to go out of comfort zone.
My parents did that with me as a child, and I think I was better adapted and independent as adult, to go out on my own.
I didn't care for video games growing up, but I understand Temple Grandin's general message about limiting video games, which can be useful to stimulate interest in computer fields for career, but also can be consuming eggscape that harms the person, but this can happen to anyone, not only people who are autistic.
I have heard about many teens in china latching onto video games as consuming obsession and spending most of their time at internet cafes playing video games, and the underlying cause seems to be need for eggscape caused by intense pressures in school.
Autistic people may also be particularly susceptible not only because of obsessive nature of brains, but also environmental influences like social isolation or school problems that make video games a good eggscape.
Autistic adults have told me before that they use video games as eggscape when they are unhappy in their lives.
It is fine to have an eggscape in my opinion, but the eggscape could also become harmful when it consumes the person.

Hmmm. I notice you've cut out pieces of what I stated in my post, particularly the parts indicating that this did not apply to every person/situation. You did leave in the "for some of us" near the end, but you don't seem to be noticing it.

I even underlined, in the beginning of my post, that this did not apply to every person and stated that I wanted to be clear about this fact. You cut that piece out too and highlighted the paragraph that was most passionate, eliminating that parts that didn't support your original assertion. In the end, it's a little bit like taking "I would never beat my wife, much less regularly!" and quoting, "I...beat my wife...regularly!"

Do you have a specific purpose for doing this? I actually am curious and am not being sarcastic in asking that.

Last edited by NowhereWoman on 23 Sep 2015, 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No, I don't. What "brought him out of his shell" was therapy. Taking him places only gave him more numerous and more varied experiences of the world out there, and thus more chances to figure out what he likes and doesn't like, as well as more opportunities to practice the therapeutic tips he was taught in order to be able to endure more and more time in the NT world without becoming overwhelmed. That's what "pushing" is to me.



But how would his personality have been able to express itself, if we hadn't given him opportunities to figure out what he likes to do and where he likes to go? When he was 6 or 8, he was NOT asking to go to new places. If he'd had his choice, he would have stayed home all day long, playing video games or watching cartoons. He only discovered that he likes going places because we never gave him a choice as to whether to come with us or not when he was smaller. We pushed him to explore, gently but firmly, while always reassuring him that we were right here besides him if he needed us. (Note that we didn't start doing it when we learned he had autism. We've always done it, ever since he was a baby.)



It's possible it's in his make-up, but we wouldn't have known if we hadn't tried, you know? Also, he did have meltdowns at the supermarket when he was smaller, but each time I thought about what triggered them, and took the necessary steps to prevent it from happening again the next time. I've never considered a meltdown to be any kind of barrier, or stop sign, but only an indication that something needed to be adjusted. As far as I've always been concerned, my son could do everything NT kids can do - as long as we made the necessary adjustments. Figuring out what those adjustments are is where the trick is

As for what comes naturally to me... As I said, he's the one pulling me now I'm in the process of being screened for autism myself, because I've finally figured out that I probably have it too, though to a much lesser degree than he does.