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K_Kelly
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14 Oct 2015, 7:33 am

I know that it's not dictatorship like the old Soviet Union, but why do most democracies today gravitate towards socialism, countries like the UK, Canada, most of Europe and South America, Mexico?

I live in the US, but even I don't understand why the socialism part hasn't taken off here as much as in other democracies. There's still a libertarian/capitalist strain here though, sometimes I kind of like that.



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14 Oct 2015, 7:51 am

Might be because there are a lot of people voting who benefit from socialist policies. If only rich people could vote, you can bet the picture would be very different.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Oct 2015, 8:23 am

Most people like to have the "safety net" which socialistic policies provide.



0_equals_true
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14 Oct 2015, 12:15 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
I know that it's not dictatorship like the old Soviet Union, but why do most democracies today gravitate towards socialism, countries like the UK, Canada, most of Europe and South America, Mexico?

I live in the US, but even I don't understand why the socialism part hasn't taken off here as much as in other democracies. There's still a libertarian/capitalist strain here though, sometimes I kind of like that.


A lot of it is to do with terminology. In the US the terminology was limited by the cold war rhetoric. You even changed the meaning of the word Liberal to mean social democrat without having to use the word 'social'.

The reality is most democracies are centrist.

The other side of it was convincing the rural working class who to vote for. If you can create associations and taboos, then you are set.



LoveNotHate
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14 Oct 2015, 3:18 pm

Socialism has taken off in America.

America has a 39.1 percent corporate tax rate. Higher than any of the countries you mentioned.

This is one reason that companies flee and incorporate themselves outside America (tax inversion).

source:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... ree-world/



AntDog
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14 Oct 2015, 3:29 pm

It's called the Democratic Party, chairwoman Debbie Washingmachine Schultz cannot deny that fact when asked.
The Republican Party is mostly a bunch of do nothings who allow it to happen while faking a ruckus to get votes only to ultimately pass what Obama wants.
I like Trump because he doesn't backdown like those in congress do.



Last edited by AntDog on 14 Oct 2015, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Phemto
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14 Oct 2015, 3:33 pm

The US has been socialist almost since the beginning. Socialism is just he decision that there is some aspect of the economy that works better as a centralized government service than an open market. It's not antithetical to capitalism.

Who's road did you drive on most recently? When the country first started, a lot of roads were privately owned. If you owned the land, you could put a road on it and charge whatever tolls you wanted. If you wanted to charge more for some vehicles than others, hey, it was your property. If you didn't want blacks or Catholics crossing, it was your property. If you were the dairy farmer closest to town, and the only way for any other dairy farmers to get their milk to market without spoiling was across your field, tough for them. So much for a free market.

It was decided early on that a socialized road system was necessary for a free and open market to function. US Socialism saved capitalism.

The problem with socialism is that when it works, it becomes invisible and people stop thinking of it that way. It's just the way things have always been.

Don't blame our high tax rate on socialism. How is it that all the other developed countries have socialized health care, but lower taxes?



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14 Oct 2015, 4:11 pm

It is a sad situation when the US becomes more concerned about dividing up the wealth than creating it.



Shrapnel
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14 Oct 2015, 4:15 pm

Phemto wrote:

Don't blame our high tax rate on socialism. How is it that all the other developed countries have socialized health care, but lower taxes?


Any citation beyond conjecture? In France the citizens are taxed 23% on top of their regular income tax to pay for their health-care, and the system still loses money.



Phemto
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14 Oct 2015, 6:19 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Phemto wrote:

Don't blame our high tax rate on socialism. How is it that all the other developed countries have socialized health care, but lower taxes?


Any citation beyond conjecture? In France the citizens are taxed 23% on top of their regular income tax to pay for their health-care, and the system still loses money.


Only anecdotal talking to French, Germans and Canadians. Taxes were the main reason Dunkin Donuts decided to become a Canadian company.

Also, looking at the raw tax rate is misleading because that includes health care in the socialist countries. In the US, that's added on top of taxes. Our private healthcare system is more expensive per capita than socialist countries with longer life expectancies. There are economies to scale.



luan78zao
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14 Oct 2015, 6:42 pm

Simple. Politicians discovered that they could buy votes with other people's money.


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14 Oct 2015, 7:50 pm

Other countries realize that a democratic society includes not just political democracy, but also social democracy. They understand that a country where the people are cared for in regard to health, education, and the like are in the end stronger. Too many Americans believe the myth of rugged individualism, in which anyone can become a millionaire if they just worked a little harder. The other side of that myth is all about how people needing help are weak, undeserving, and could improve their lives simply by pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. Essentially, a myth that's all pie-in-the-sky, and hardhearted. It's a myth endorsed by the powerful and wealthy, in order to keep the lower orders down.


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whatamess
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14 Oct 2015, 7:53 pm

I don't know, but I live in a place that is mostly socialist in policies and it is going down the drain...I bet many socialist places are too, they just don't make it public because of course, the majority are benefiting while the minority work to support the ones who don't...I'm about to leave this place



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14 Oct 2015, 7:56 pm

luan78zao wrote:
Simple. Politicians discovered that they could buy votes with other people's money.


What's wrong with a government that actually does something for the people? And if taxes aren't used to care for those in need, what's supposed to happen to them? Learn to go without food or medicine until they can join the upper class by their own superhuman effort? Or are they just expected to die?


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14 Oct 2015, 7:57 pm

whatamess wrote:
I don't know, but I live in a place that is mostly socialist in policies and it is going down the drain...I bet many socialist places are too, they just don't make it public because of course, the majority are benefiting while the minority work to support the ones who don't...I'm about to leave this place


What place might that be?


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14 Oct 2015, 8:00 pm

Socialism is becoming more popular, of course mostly democratic socialism.....since obviously things like The Soviet Union are terrible things to model anything after. Socialism will just even out the resources and help ensure everyone has the means of survival and life and of course the democracy bit is important since authoritarian type socialism wouldn't be good for anyone....except whatever ends up being the 'ruling' class.

Being fond of democratic socialism myself I am not disturbed in the least.


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