In what ways can people lie without negative consequences

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AgusCahyo
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24 Nov 2016, 12:37 am

What I mean by lying means

1. Giving false impression
2. So others do things that hurt their interests
3. That benefit the liars

Many lies are very excusable
1. A person can believe their own statement. In religion this happens through "faith". So people can say anything and claim that he is not lying because he believe what he said is true. A person can say give me $1 million dollar because that's what God's want, and he won't be charged with fraud unless someone can proof beyond reasonable doubt he wants the money.
2. The statement can be arguable or do not have precise meaning.
3. The statement can be technically correct.
4. The lie is done legally.

I wonder if there is a book that does more analysis on this.

I will give you a sample.

An insurance salesman sell "investment" to a customer. The customer specifically ask that he wants only small insurance and the rest can be investments. The salesman says that all money are invested. Turns out, only 47% of the money are invested like regular mutual fund. The rest are gone in fees that the customer doesn't know when buying.

Is this lying?

Is this excusable?

How many are like this?



AgusCahyo
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24 Nov 2016, 12:58 am

One more thing.

If too many people believe the same thing, then the statement will be politically correct. So religions, insurance fraud are rarely prosecuted.

I think this is something most autistic people have a hard time seeing.

To me, if something is false, or quite likely false, with little evidence, but expressed as if it is true, it's a lie.

I don't give f**k what the actual state of mind or political correctness of the statement.

However, that's not how society works.



AgusCahyo
Snowy Owl
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24 Nov 2016, 1:17 am

I wish there is a mathematical analysys for this.



whatamievendoing
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24 Nov 2016, 3:47 am

I don't believe in excusable lying.


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AngryAngryAngry
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24 Nov 2016, 4:30 am

I hate liars. However most people are doing simple lies "I don't pee in the shower" "I'm normal" "I'm honest"

Most of these lies are not actively against other people, even though they do marginalise someone that gives an honest answer; me Aspergers; I pee in the shower(everyone does), I'm weird(everyone is), I lie(what kind of lying is the important issue).

So, some lying is okay. And it depends on the context too, are you lying to protect yourself from someone who wishes to harm you - criminal, someone that will use the information to harm you (gossip, backstabber).
Some times not giving information is lying, yet I do this all the time; people are damn nosey, requesting information that they have no logical reason for knowing (girl asking if a man is gay, especially work colleague).

I've lied with emotions too aka false body language, this is to get gossips to stay away from me to I can get on with my work.
Heck I've done all the creepy things men do (needy, explode someone's phone, ask if it is okay if my parents come on our date, etc) just to get a 'creepy' woman to back off, or even end a relationship that is WRONG.

Yes it is wrong. But it was done to save both parties time, or to protect myself. I don't want to use these techniques, but sometimes it is a necessity in Neurotypical world, where they are forcing their group think office politics and social norms on me.
I lie all the time to get out of drinking & going to pub/parties - otherwise it is a true hassle to simply say I don't drink, I don't enjoy pub, I don't enjoy sport etc Neurotypical Sheeple CANNOT accept others individual choices or even preferences that do not conform to the norm.
So much so that many people pretend to enjoy drinking, or sport, JUST to fit in or avoid the peer pressure harassment.
A classic example of this is Vegan. You tell people that (do it for fun as an experiment) and they will freak, they'll give you a funny look then bombard you with questions.
On the completely opposite spectrum you'll get a militant Vegan, they will demand to know how you cannot eat meat, don't you know how unhealthy, bad for the environment, unethical, cruel.... etc



nick007
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24 Nov 2016, 9:09 pm

I think lying to avoid hurting others feelings is OK or at least expected in our society. Like when someone gives you a gift you don't like & you say something like "this is so nice Thank You".


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Nahum
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25 Nov 2016, 4:39 am

nick007 wrote:
I think lying to avoid hurting others feelings is OK or at least expected in our society. Like when someone gives you a gift you don't like & you say something like "this is so nice Thank You".


I would also add to this the act of lying on behalf of a greater good.

And yes OP, your insurance salesman bit is an example of lying. But there's more to it than lying, for example, a lack of integrity on the part of the salesman. You can be a disgusting unethical human being, with the law's permission. I'm only pointing this out because you seem to be conflating the act of lying, and other unsavory actions that often coincide with it.