Theory of Mind and Autistic Thinking

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Several years ago I began taking Seroquel (quetiapine fumarate) and Abilify (aripiprazole.)

U.S. National Library of Medicine:

Seroquel and Abilify are second generation or atypical antipsychotics and both have effected my clarity of thought and general rationality markedly. It is because of this that I find myself being able to reflect on my past thinking and behavior through new, clearer eyes. In particular, I have become aware of what ToM is and how the lack of it has effected my life. I am by no means neurotypical because of the medications I take; they help me, but they are not a cure.

Theory of Mind to me means to be aware of the perspectives and differing experiences of others. The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy and Cognitive Science (2012) definition is:

Theory of Mind by Alvin I. Goldman

One of the biggest differences I see in myself since taking atypical antipsychotics is that I no longer have the need to defend my experience. Indeed I used to try to force people to share my experience rather than to be content to have differing ones. I am more aware of an unspoken connection that binds me to others that is beyond agreement on perspectives. I feel less alone and am curious about others, not threatened by them.

I am less attached to memories and am not afraid to change.

So what is autistic thinking? In terms of this thread I believe it to be a rejection of others experience and an aggressive sharing of one's own. This kind of thinking can be found in many neuro diversities, but I am focusing on its effect on autistic people in particular because I think autistic people let it get the best of them too often. And it is a vicious circle which validates itself: not sharing with others drives one inward which makes one more distant and so on. I think it is crucial to success to not be afraid of others' experiences. They are not a rejection, just a difference.

So I wonder if anyone has had experiences developing Theory of Mind and how it has effected people's lives.

First off, I found your words to be very interesting and I am so thankful you wrote. I'm sorry up front that this isn't very flattering but I just want to get to a true idea from your incredible perspective.

The way I see it, it's not so much an attachment of my own perspective and a rejection of theirs. I see it that their perspective is a shared perspective or a common perspective (to a tribe) and my perspective is typically unique. If I share my perspective with them, it isn't seen as part of any tribe, so it is soundly rejected. If I approach them out of curiosity and ask to learn about their perspective, they will share it whole heartedly. However, my perspective never is asked for, and if it is, it is shortened at the end of a conversation as a social nicety. The bottom line is that I see people as glomming on all the time to one perspective or another and that their is a domination of this and that perspective - none of which are an original perspective or a perspective gained from actual experience. What are your thoughts on this?

I see this too. People often go along with their friend's point-of-view for no other reason than to present a unified front (which I think adds to the bonding of the friends.) I prefer not to give an opinion if I know it will result in discord.

I recently learned that for most people, the Theory of Mind process is subconscious. I used to think that the Golden Rule was most people's conscious guide to behaviour, even if often misinformed or poorly processed. Lately, I've had to find a new theory. This is a popular general subject here, so much so that I can't even find all that I've recently written on the topic in various threads.

I build mental models of people based on detailed study of their actions, adding in data as i gather it.

I can not predict people, but I know when they diverge from their model. Unfortunately it does not work in real time, but I do become a lie detector after awhile. I knew/know when all of my girlfriends and coworkers have lied.

One are where it does not work, is when the ask or expect me to guess what they want. I will almost always fail.

There was a study done using fMRI, where they looked at the patterns of connections in the brains of NTs and NDs. The NTs were essentially the same. The NDs were different from the NTs and different from each other. No patterns.

I don't think most people consider such things. I think there is a spark that people have that I don't

I do this too. I get by because I have a good memory.

When I had a simplistic, though conscious Theory of Mind, it left me enough free synapses for some savant-like talents. NTs seem to use most of their brains just keeping track of other NTs, rather imperfectly.

I feel like I have some ToM, I know when someone is in pain or hungry, but anything dealing with social intetactions, I am clueless.

One of my autistic family members took Lexapro (I think) for awhile and said that it made him "less autistic" and better able to tolerate other people and participate in social things. I think he also said that his thinking slowed and he no longer experienced an "explosion" of thoughts when he was going to sleep. He eventually went off of it, at least in part because he missed being his full autistic self.

It's too bad that they don't do clinical studies on the effects antidepressants and antipsychotics have on autistics. It would be helpful both for people who want the effects and for those who would like to avoid them.

Many years ago I was on Lexapro and it was pretty awful. I never noticed any positive effects but it sure had plenty of unpleasant side effects. Later I was switched to Effexor XR which was much better. It had some positive effects and fewer (though still some) side effects. I also noticed that I seemed to have fewer meltdowns when I was on it. The worst part was coming off of it. The "discontinuation syndrome" was absolutely hellish and lasted for months, and that was WITH tapering down the dose.

While I doubt this has been clinically studied, when I saw the Neuropsychiatrist who specializes in Autism spectrum disorders, he mentioned that they've noticed that SSRI/SNRI's tend to be more sedating in Autistic patients. I thought this was very intriguing, as it fit with my personal experiences. Both the Lexapro and Effexor made me want to sleep all the time. Amazingly, I never put this together while I was on these medications. It wasn't till I was tapering off the Effexor that I realized, for the first time in almost a decade, I wasn't tired.