Do Atheists really consider Christians less intelligent?

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Talking to atheists, they like to proudly dismiss people of faith- especially Christians. I am not offended if they think this of me. I am a Christian, and I have about an average intelligence level- I am gifted in some areas. I am not gifted in math and sciences as I am in verbal skills, and musical, writing, etc. I was wondering why there is a perception that personal/spiritual beliefs reflect intelligence level, however. If we look at very intelligent people in history- quite a few were believers in a higher being. But is it maybe some atheists have bad experiences with Christians, so they try and dismiss something with which they are unfamiliar?

Maybe I'm being incorrect, but I don't understand why people make a big deal of (raw) intelligence. It seems to me like people are feeling superior through logic and/or science. Sure rationality is necessary, but not the only thing. The point is to live...

T.S. Eliot was quite religious. He was also quite intelligent.

Pope John Paul II was also quite an intelligent man. He was pretty religious as well.

I happen to be an atheist who believes schools of a religious persuasion tend to be hotbeds of intellect. We should remember that it was the monasteries which kept us from becoming completely immersed in the Dark Ages circa 600-700 AD.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 04 Apr 2017, 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have encountered a subset of the non-religious, non-spiritual, who have said outright that belief in spiritual things is foolish, stupid, and have even gone as far to say that people believe in those things because they are not intelligent enough to understand science.
I've also seen the superiority and arrogance flow the opposite direction.
And I'm pretty sure there is evidence out in the world which shows it is a common human behavior to think people different from you are by definition dumber than you.

To name a few Christians: Charles Sanders Peirce, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Søren Kierkegaard, Leonhard Euler, Bernhard Riemann, Kurt Gödel ...

Sigmund Freud, who was an avowed atheist, had a healthy respect for how religion is capable of making people "whole."

I'm pretty non-religious, though I have been exploring Zen Buddhism. I don't judge people for their religious beliefs - I've known very intelligent Muslims, Catholics, Hindus, etc., and I was raised Jewish.

I do strongly suspect that there is a connection between intelligence and tolerance for disagreement. I've known religious people who were offended by the very thought of me being non-religious. Likewise, I've known a few atheists who couldn't tolerate the thought that anyone around them was religious. I should note that this is different from anti-theism - an anti-theist can believe the world would be better off without religion, while still tolerating, or being okay with someone being religious. I think being intolerant of difference, whether from a theist or an atheist, is a sign of a lack of intelligence, or at least a sign of deep insecurity. That type of intolerance would demonstrate mental inflexibility.

Last edited by Amebix on 04 Apr 2017, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There is a correlation between higher IQ and atheism, however whether or not an atheist considers one less intelligent for religious beliefs depends on the person.

On an interesting note, people with higher than average IQs while more likely to be atheist or agnostic, are also more likely to be susceptible to indoctrination by cults. One reason may be the propensity for those with higher IQs to entertain complex ideas, combined with a reluctance to reject a claim without being able to articulate a logical argument against it, due to it's advocate's use of logical fallacies with which the inductee is not explicitly familiar with. It also may be that those with higher IQs may be more likely to suffer from schizotypal personality disorder and schizophrenia.

There has been studies showing the average Atheist being of higher IQ than the average religious person. I can see why that would be, but that does NOT mean religious people are incapable of intelligence. There has been many geniuses who were also religious. I am Atheist myself, but I always respect anyone who offers it in return. I would never go out of my way to belittle someone for their religion, and I have met many intelligent religious people. I met a Buddhist monk named Subin when I was young, he was helping my mom through a divorce, I still remember him even though I was only 5 or 6. He was an incredibly interesting personality, great humor, and so kind even though he knew my mother was in no way religious.

I guess I look at Christianity with more distaste, but only by my poor experiences as a kid. I lived with my father for a short period of time while he was dating a church-going Christian type. I don't mind that, but she actually forced me to go to church as well even though I explicitly expressed my desire to not do so (I've identified as atheist since age 8, this happened around 12). I am more mellow about it now of course, as I know not all Christians act that way. I've had people say things like "God bless you" plenty of times, and honestly, I just say thank you. I am not going to say it back, but I will always recognize it as a gesture of kindness!

What Atheists think about Christians is not that they are less intelligent, more like that they are, more brainwashed. I do not self-identify as Atheist, although technically my current views are somewhat complicated to describe. I self-identify as a Moralist / Empiricist / Gnostic Neo-Shaman, depending upon if the question has to do with ethics, science, or altered states of consciousness. Identifying myself as an Atheist is like identifying myself as an Aunicornist, it really does not get to the core of my belief systems.

A bad habit I have noticed though is that theists of all stripes always want to push me into a choice of Atheist (the really liberal ones allow for Agnostic) or nothing else at all. I cry back: "Just because that question is soooo important to you, doesn't mean it is of central importance to everyone else!" In terms of existence I am currently Atheist although if I had the right altered states experience I am open to other models. Agnostic philosophically speaking.

Mainly as an Empiricist though, God is a model, one of many such possible models. A God that cares about you, probably nonsense brought about by NT's hive minding with themselves. A Deistic God that is the Universe's Wavefunction, that is an all knowing, fixed in perfect oneness? At least that could be possible according to modern Science. You would have to become one with God in an Altered State and then compare notes with others who have to. This is basically what the shamanic, kabbalistic ecstatic suffi style states are, and they Fascinate me.

There are, I think, many reasons for the dislike by Atheists of all things religious. Abrahamic religions in general are revealed truths, with a cultus of practices that can never be questioned. These practices come from many sources, but overall one could describe, after finding who online is in the know, that the Christian Faith is based upon a pagan semitic philosophy of Astrotheological King Worship. It gets all sorts of interestingly worse if you check out a few of the following Authors. Ahmed Osmon, Ralph Ellis... The internet is freaking great! Please use it on this question, pleeease!

Speaking of religious cults, If I was an NT I would have gotten sucked into the B'hai faith. When I say cult here, I am not trying to be derogetory; no, I am trying to be scientifically accurate. B'hai is both a very large and well established faith; as well as a cult: it has ceremonys, temples, rituals... you know, a cultus, latin for, Cult.

A friend of mine from school tried to get me into it. A book I read later about Cults gave me chills because of what happened in real life. You see, my friend said to me something like the following, "Hey, some people from my {church group?} are going to be hanging out after-hours at school. No religious stuff, just people chatting, playing board games, having a good time, that kind of thing..."

I liked board games and I was bored. Sure friend! Let's go to play time.

Yeah, there was totally a religious ceremony, and there was totally a point where people where saying all wormtongue-like to me "come {tensordyne}, come inside with everyone else...", and I say "nope, I am fine outside, thanks".

The Book described what happened to me in real life. That is how they get you in this groups, they use social pressuring. The social pressuring did not work for me. If you guys want to be jerks and do your religious thing, I will play board games in my head by myself, just fine, thanks. Yeah, I am on the spectrum, and it saved me from being a believer. Thank goodness!

I am lucky enough to be both talented in math and writing, little drawing, Mario Maker obsession. The Astrological side of the magical thinking that occurs in most major religions is interesting as well [Don't believe me, please, I dare you to do your own research if you are a true blue believer of anything]. The Astro- in Astrotheology has to do with Astrology. Earth, air, fire and water, wooooo. Mix in murcury, prayers and other elaborately useless practices and you have Alchemy. Could go on... and on... and on.......

Summary from modern Science point of view: Thanks Ancients for remembering Math is cool; Thanks Greeks for debating. Otherwise, you guys are all crazy in the head, sorry for the prognosis.

Being LGBTQ+ I have misgivings about Abrahamic religions as well. I am an abomination according to the Bible. That is kind of hard when your Mom has a religion that says you are an abomination. Makes you feel abominable feelings towards that religion. On the other hand, things are changing. I have never felt anything but supported by my family on being Gay. My Dominionist brother-in-law even keeps himself in check by saying nothing while I say nothing (easy).

Last Christmas I also came out of the Autisitic closet. It had a vindicating feeling. No, he was not being crazy about the loud noises. Yes, you guys were probably not being emotionally supportive after all and you did not even know it! Sweet Jesus of relief.

Anywho. Believe what you want. I will mercilessly follow the rules online and prosecute my own debates / represent my own views / and empathize with those I can, while in this space. Hope that was interesting. I am not trying to be insulting, just truthful, but then, that never seemed to be a good excuse in the past, so kind of worried.

You asked!

There is conjecture that ASD people that have difficulty with abstract thinking, find it difficult to believe in GOD.

So, perhaps they think abstract thinking is less intelligent thinking.

No according to the Bible you're not an abomination. And people who say you're an abomination according to the Bible don't know what they are talking about. I see you like board games, care for a game of online chess sometimes?

In reply to the last, my favorite theory in that vein is that God is a number of things. God is an NT conception. NT's have this amazing ability to feel like they are one with a group. What happens when you are closest to God? Is it when no one else is around, like when you are out in nature? In church, with the congregation, with your eyes closed? If those are the moments that match, why then?

Perhaps because you have to be with youself when those events happen, and you have no other mind to project into around you, so you project your mind into the void, Anthropomorphising the universe at large, because no other target exists? I never projected, ever (biological reasons, not my fault). So when I am alone, which is kind of always, it is not a shocker. Zen is my natural state, free of charge.

Next theory, God is the universe's wave function in a deistic sense and others sense this presence to varying degrees. In ASD individuals such as myself, the antennae are cut off at base station, as it were. This leads to very different reports of what reality is like based for some questions based on the obviously differing phenomenological outcomes. Stronger sensations, wild sensations, etc... just make these differences even more divergent for some folks (luckily, sound is the only thing that messes with myself, plus I nock around some times).

I am a genius at math (probably savant about some rather obscure things I will not get into), have programmed in a number of languages and can talk shop about it if you want. Point being, I understand abstraction, very well. It has nothing to do with abstraction. It has to do with something else. I am not preprogrammed for god's feelings, it is more like I am preprogrammed for god's mind.

A hyper-gifted Aspie mind is a very different kind of mind to have. My complaints are always about people being sloppy with abstract and critical thought. It just seems like the better you are at reading feelings the crappier you are at doing Math. That is what I always hear "oh, I am not good at math." Makes me so sad. Best guess.

Trade offs.

Note! The above is just my unprofessional opinion. It only gives you an honest view of one mind.

Sorry Yo El, I mostly just do math and Mario Maker these days. If you want a level code we could be buds that way, assuming you like wii u and have that game

Chess drives me crazy. It has too many combinations to close form solve, so it is useless as a problem, in a way. All heuristics, I would have to dedicate too much brain space to any new game. Openings, midgame, etc. Trying to learn Biology and Chemistry type stuff right now. Self-study organic chem is fun but it is incredible to me the complexity that occurs just one level above the atomic physics scale.

Thanks for the offer though. I have my patterns...

I totally accept your views as positive to LGBTQ and accept you ( hug ). I choose for social reasons to not debate anything else of logical value relative to your statements. Love it.

Honestly, I think a lot of pseudo-intellectuals get into atheism because they think it makes them seem smarter. A lot of smart people are atheists, but a lot are also quite religious. My take on the matter? Religion is a very personal thing, that I think everyone should have the freedom to approach in their own way. I am against cults however, since they exist purely to exploit and manipulate people.

I think some people here already have nailed a particular connection - ie. fundamentalist religious and can't-hold-a-jab-back atheists/antitheists seem to have something in common. I think at root it's a need for certainty. I say that because each group latches on to one set of information, whether revelation or a certain line of fact excavated from the environment, and then puts all kids of other things that contradict in a basket of both wrong and below examination.

IMHO that's an information and sanity strategy in a very difficult, complex, and unassuring world, and I can see people coming to this conclusion early on if they've been hit hard enough by the politics of belief around them that they feel that they either declare they're X or they'll be manipulated for the rest of their lives. People are abrasive like that and you have to do a lot of things quite often in life that have more to do with not getting walked on and less to do with ultimate facts. By the time that pattern's set for years it can be tough to get back out of. That hard inclusion/exclusion line seems to speak to politics and reinforces the notion that that mode in particular of approach is centered in sociological factors.