Obedience - Aspie Women

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I wonder whether being overly obedient is an Aspie trait. It seems it would be as a lot of us seem rules-oriented.

I think it is worse for females. Women are already taught so many rules whether overtly or subtly, especially in my culture, that to internalize all that you can feel caged in. And then at some point either you crack and become the ‘bad girl’ (as I have heard other Aspie women describe, EG Becca Lowry on Spectrumly Speaking podcast), or overly obedient to the point you have no concept of self.

For me it made me over-dependent. I was inwardly angry and rebellious at all the rules I was taught as a Muslim girl but I ended up absorbing it and becoming overly obedient. And quiet. Like a blank slate. Which ended up being harmful in many ways to me (not others).

I know a lot of it could have to do with culture/upbringing, however my classmates and sister/cousins are not like this. They are shocked when I tell them ‘of course I did XYZ, you’re supposed to.’

So I am curious to hear whether this is a case of neurology and culture overlapping, whether gender has anything to do with it (as one hears that the female phenotype is different), and how it would manifest amongst other cultures and personalities (who are on the spectrum).

I think this is a perfect example of spectrum personas being a case by case basis. I cannot submit to obedience as an Aspie. I definitely identify as a dominant personality, even though I'm mellow. Unlike men I don't need dominance for reassurance, it's just my nature. When someone tries to control me I just don't like it and cannot abide to societal norms or constructs without a reason I comply with. I am definitely mellow so it freaks people out when they go too far and I'm willing to go toe to toe with them. I consider myself reasonably assertive with no negative agendas.

Thanks for the input. I aim to be that way. Hopefully one day.

I hope you can find a balance. Sometimes I wish I was more self sacrificing and had more patience. That comes with knowledge of people's intentions and agendas though. I used to be like you, but never fully you know?. It's all based on our innermost nature and desires. There's nothing wrong with either side as long as you're not hurting yourself or anyone else. Being honest with yourself is extremely gratifying.

It says next to your profile name that you are the same age as me. You definitely sound more self-aware. I honestly don’t know myself much besides what I am told.
I would make a great servant!

I couldn't help but laugh at that because I'm the complete opposite. We all age and experience things differently. I'm emotionally intelligent but slow to mature in other areas. It takes all kinds I think.

I am from a South Asian / Indian background and I seem to be a mix of obedient and strong minded throughout my life.

I always deeply hated the hypocrisy and double standards in South Asian culture, the way women are viewed and treated and how people are expected to place everyone else's opinions and preferences above themselves. Love in families is always conditional. People are so fearful of 'what others may think' instead of being authentic. I was always and still am a feminist at heart.
But I did struggle a lot with guilt in my twenties and occasionally have twinges of it.

I am generally a fairly mellow and quiet person. I am ok with following 'rules' if they sort of make some logical sense and don't feel like a major infringement on my principles and autonomy and self-respect.
People can be surprised with how stubborn and strong minded I can be about a number of things.

The older I get, the less of a sh*t I give about other people's opinions. I think that happens to most people - NT or Aspie.

Are you still financially dependent on your family in some way?
I found the more financial independence I gained and the more financially secure I became, the more self-esteem and self-respect I gained and the easier it became to stand up for myself because I didn't have to subject myself to the whims and mercies of my family or community.

It also helps that I'm lucky that I live in the UK and don't have any immediate family here.

I'm a rule-follower by nature, but I have trouble understanding the rules.

As a kid I was always being sent to my room for punishment, but had no idea what I'd done wrong. So I didn't learn from it, and probably just kept doing the same thing over again, because I had no clue what the rule was.

I feel that way as an adult as well, in terms of social rules. Cannot for the life of me figure them out. Keep getting myself in trouble, because I just don't have 'common sense' when it comes to appropriate behavior, and don't pick up on social cues that are obvious to everyone else.

I am not a female, but in regards to it being an aspie trait - I am the complete opposite. I dislike rules for the sake of rules, and will only follow them if I find them logically consistent and necessary.

With females, I've met aspie females who were on either side of the spectrum, so I would say it varies as much as with neurotypicals.

There needs to be a specific therapy for people who have gone through the South Asian culture and been treated like a slave.

I did not know whether it’s me or the culture but now it seems from the responses here it’s not nature (neurology/born that way), but taught/beaten into you. So it can be unlearnt, hopefully.

I find myself seeking permission from everyone around me etc. It’s really really hard to explain but this is the best I can do

I think a lot of people are by nature very placid and submissive, while others are more boisterous and head strong.
For example, my problem is that I hate conflict and try to avoid it as much as possible, and sometimes that means I end up being too nice or not very good at being assertive.

If you add in strong cultural influences such as the expectation that women should be polite and submissive and always think about family and reputation, then there is even more pressure to conform to the rules.

As you mention though, these things can be unlearnt or more healthy ways of asserting your personal boundaries can be cultivated instead.
Do you have any access to counselling or therapy?

Certain factors can help facilitate the process, such as working towards financial independence, living away from your family etc.
These two things were the biggest help for me in figuring out who I was and what I wanted out of life. Learning to make my own decisions as well as my own mistakes. Socialising with people from different backgrounds opened my mind to different perspectives. By living as far away as possible from one's family, a person can better resist their toxic influences and negativity.

Things won't change overnight, but you can slowly start with small stuff… having your own opinion and making your own decision about them. Over time as you build your self esteem and a sense of who you are as a person, you can start to assert yourself in bigger decisions.

I am the other extreme, and need to work on eliminating my own self-will. I try to be a "good girl" in other ways (e.g. not buying luxury products and denying my body some pleasures it wants), but obedience is very difficult for me, especially when I know I'm right. (Not every time, but there have been a few times when that legitimately happened). My mother says that a fiery will is part of the Aspie personality.

I was an obedient pleaser as a child and generally obey people as an adult. I don’t want to, but I don’t like getting into meaningless fights with people IRL. I’m rebellious inside. Sometimes that gets out and I have a go at people if I think they deserve it.

I don't really know much about Southern Asian culture but I suspect being a woman there could be a tricky game of sometimes being obidient, sometimes faking it, sometimes manipulating while pretending submission and maintaining one's own self under complicated layers of roleplaying.
Way too complicated for an Aspie.
I find women societes too complicated even in my own culture. All this sweet-bitchy mix, faked friendships, gossip, hypocrisy and diffused rules... I just stay outside of this. Luckily, no one is trying to force me into it.
I'm quite rebelious but being rebelious is widely tolerated in Poland, regardless your gender. But I sometimes get devoted to the point I lose my awareness of self, feelings and needs.

I think it's a mix of being an aspie and being a woman from your culture. Some aspies want to follow rules because doing so they know, or at least they think they know, what is expected of them and what people don't want them to do. It's just easier than trying to get people to tell us what they want. And if obedience is something that is beaten (literally, figuratevily or both) in to you from young age then it's no wonder if you've been molded in to something that the people around you prefer. Of course, it is also a matter of personality. Some just are more likely to follow other people and their orders than others, no matter if they're NTs, aspies or something else.

For me, obeying rules is mostly about logic. If someone told me a rule and I understood the logic behind it then I followed it to perfection in most cases and got mad when someone else didn't. They were rules, rules aren't meant to be broken! That's the mindset I had when I was a kid. But I was even angrier when someone broke a rule and the person who had set the rule found out but didn't punish the rule breaker. What's the point of having rules if the ones who break them aren't punished when caught!? That's just stupid and... hypocritical?

These days I know how foolish it is to expect everyone to follow rules and that those who set the rules would actually always care about them. I know that when there are set rules, most people can "see" if they are the kind of rules that are expected to be followed literally and all the time or not. If they aren't then they only follow them when they want to... to be honest I sometimes tend to do the same, but I have trouble finding out what rules exist for the sake of there being rules and what rules people actually want others to follow.

I’m not obedient by nature, but I’ve forced myself to learn to be.

Not having much social capital and not being good at playing mind games, it seems like the only way to keep relationships. Plus I want to stay married, and the fact is that men NEED to be dominant. They are hardwired to see dissent as a challenge, and to react to it with sufficient force to eradicate the threat. Submission to a husband isn’t dogma. It’s a neurobiological necessity.

I hate it though. I’m not perfect by any stretch, but I am logical. Outside of human relationships, I make pretty good decisions. I miss me, but I’d rather be a doormat in a relationship than independent in a vacuum.