Trump plans concentration camps for caravan migrants

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Trump says US planning ‘tent cities’ for migrants

It's interesting.

As "ASPE" said (giving credit here) .... they're not illegal.

If they make a claim of "asylum seeker", then US law says they must be adjudicated.

However, immigration courts are so backed up, like 2-4 years delay.

"Individuals with an immigration court case who were ultimately granted relief—such as asylum—by March 2018 waited more than 1,000 days on average for that outcome" New Jersey and California had the longest wait times, averaging 1,300 days until relief was granted in the immigration case".
https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil. ... ted-states

After 180 days, US law permits them to get a work permit, while waiting for adjudication.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2013/11/12/l ... ers-united

HOWEVER, "Attorney General Jeff Sessions is preparing to make a move that would allow him to keep any asylum seeker detained indefinitely"
https://yubanet.com/usa/as-caravan-appr ... -detained/

So, they're looking at spending years in "tent city".

Wonder how much tax payer money all that takes to maintain per day.

If the cost of imprisoning these migrants is higher than the cost saved by keeping them out of the country, then the true purpose of these camps is not to save money. What then, is their purpose?

That's easy to answer. He wants to test whether his supporters have any limit to their tolerance of cruelty to those he has taught them to regard as dehumanised and worthless human beings. It's common practice in history for demagogues to do this in very calculating ways. Didn't you realise that's what he was doing with the hapless, caged, children and infants, thousands of whom are still separated from their parents all these months later? If his supporters don't care about huge harm to innocent children, then they have taught Trump that he can get away with even worse behaviour, and I am very certain that he plans to. Trump has no normal moral compass, and the ambitions of a demagogue, and his ulterior motives are always related to those repugnant character features.

His grandiose dreams of total power may come to fruition if the right doesn't search for and find its misplaced conscience.

Oh well if it's being done for science I guess that's ok. Science funding has been waning in the United States so I'm glad that Trump has provided the funding for this science experiment, which is essentially the Milgram experiment replicated at a national scale. The original experiment showed that the majority of people are willing to use lethal force on innocent people. I wonder if Trump's experiment will reveal the same.

/sarcasm

You’d rather the just be let in and go wherever they want f**k laws right. We should tear down the border and get rid of tsa let everyone do whatever they want
People can take m60 machinefuns on planes and bring back ak47s from African vacations

Every time you see a snowflake, do you get scared of an avalanche? Everytime you see a rain and wind do you get scared of a hurricane? Maintaining perspective is important because a habit of continual catastrophising can severely affect mental stability.

a long time ago, a college psych prof explained our national dysfunction by saying "mediocrity only comprehends its own level."

Oh what a gigantic suprise, NOT.

Why are people still illegally immigrating to the US when conditions are so bad for them here? Why are people marching themselves into concentration camps?

tbh this does look like an avalanche:



12,500,000 illegal residents is a lot.

And I think if they were all white Serbians, Bosnians and Croatians, it wouldn't make much of a difference, any more than it did for the thoroughly despised Irish immigrants. German immigrants weren't called "krouts" and Polish immigrants called 'pollocks" out of affection.

How happy would you be if a zillion redneck Americans immigrated to NZ, especially illegally?

Perhaps to understand this one needs the capacity to be able to apply sufficient theory of mind to understand their plight. Seeking the protection of asylum in another country when one's own country has become life threatening is a basic principle of international law. The incumbent president of the USA is on record as saying that he "loves the rule of law". It may be however that he lacks the ability, the goodwill or the mindset to understand what that is and what it means. Unfortunately that ignorance seems to be currently widespread in the USA, though other countries pay more than lip service to it and consider the principles of sanctuary and the rights of endangered people to seek asylum. They have a right to seek it, not necessarily to be granted it automatically, but they also have the right to be treated humanely under international law and not designated as criminals simply for seeking asylum.

Is the Statue of Liberty still standing? Is international law still taught in the USA? The USA is a nation of immigrants itself - as are its three of its five eyes traditional allies, New Zealand, Canada and Australia. New Zealand, though we have far less space and resources, still honours international law in word and deed. We don't play games with the lives of the desperate who seek asylum. We receive them and accord them human decency and respect while assessing each case on its merits. If we can do that, surely it is not beyond the vast resources of the USA to do the same, instead of trying to score political points and play vicious games with those whose circumstances are desperate enough to risk everything to escape from inhumane and dangerous conditions.

After Pol Pot was toppled, for example, NZ accepted many penniless, dispossessed and terribly suffering Cambodian families. With state support they have transformed into wonderful, law abiding valued members of the community and they came here both seeking political asylum and as refugees. They risked their lives to get there, and most had nothing left but their lives when they arrived.

There's a bigger picture and context than the whims and political posturing of the current POTUS. Seeking asylum in another country is not an illegal action in international law. There's a bigger picture and there's a wilful blindness to that bigger picture being promoted by certain sections of the USA populace.

If compassion is restricted and only offered to people who share our own level of privileged existence, then it isn't compassion, it's bigotry.

The USA interference in the politics of Central and Southern America - the vast majority of it occurring before you were born - caused a great deal on internal strife and suffering there which has ongoing effects. It is not an innocent party in the history of conflict and human consequences in that part of the world. The victims no doubt remember and suffer more from this than the USA citizens who rush to condemn them en masse in an un-nuanced way.

The example you gave of Cambodian refugees was a one time deal. People pouring over the boarder illegally into America has been an increasing chronic problem for decades. Theory of mind is also needed to understand why Americans are fed up with it. I mean if NZ had already had a decades long problem of a significant number of Cambodians illegally entering and residing there, would that refugee influx have been as welcome? Now I personally am not affected by any of it, so I don't mind it. But I understand why others do. And with 450,000,000 people living in Central and South America, one has to wonder how many more caravans there might be and how much subsequently larger would they be. With 12,500,000 illegal residents on top of that. Is there no point in which a line should be drawn?

Last edited by EzraS on 02 Nov 2018, 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Where are those people supposed to go? The reason they are coming here is because where they come from is in shambles they want their kids to survive and don't think they will if they remain where they are. The humane response is to let them in...not threaten them with taking away their children and deporting them back to an environment they are likely to be murdered in. Like these people didn't just wake up one day and say, hey I want to go to america and take all their resources....they think oh I can leave this place and maybe reach america to give my kids a future, or maybe even I can survive and find work. Immigrants from south of the border are not the problem.

Though Trumps proposed walls could negatively impact natural animal migrations, maybe you don't care about that but it is actually problematic. Creatures like the magnificent cat in my picture need to be able to move freely in the wild, Trumps big wall plan could have a very negative impact on such animals.

^ it’s not our responsibility to care for all the worlds population, though you all didn’t want us to be the worlds policie? Mean if we going house and care for most of South America we should send our military and take the land and resources.