Struggling With Romantic Loneliness

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The Grand Inquisitor
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23 Feb 2019, 10:09 am

I don't know for sure that happiness is achievable for me. I can't get over my romantic loneliness, certainly not without having a partner.

I've wanted a girlfriend since I was 12 (Well before that kinda but it started to amp up at 12 with puberty and stuff), and at 22.5 years old, I've still not had even one while many my age have gained experience from being in multiple relationships and having other assorted liaisons. When I was 15 I remember meeting a friend's dad and it came up somehow that his first relationship was at 21. I thought to myself that I really don't wanna be that guy, but apparently I'm even worse off. I remember dreading reaching 18 without ever having had a relationship partner, and contemplating committing suicide if it happened. Same for 21. I'm still here obviously, but I've become significantly more cynical and negative over time and I would attribute most of it to having to deal with constant romantic loneliness and unfulfilled desires of physical and emotional intimacy to the point where I was diagnosed with depression years ago and it's never gotten better, and it never will get better until my romantic insecurities are invalidated and my desires at least temporarily satisfied.

I fear that it might even be too late. Even if I started dating and having relationships, I worry that the fact that I started dating so late against my will will still be something that I won't be able to get over, like it will haunt me for the rest of my life. Not being able to date at all until everybody else already has a lot more experience than me was literally one of my worst nightmares, an element that I would include if I were to create my own personal hell, and yet here we are. For all I know at the moment I could possibly die without ever having had a girlfriend, and if that was to be my trajectory, I'd have wished to never be born. I can't even feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel when I've made it this long alone and I don't see how it could change, or why it would.

To make matters worse, I'm in the worst shape of my life. I gained 30kg (or 65 pounds) at the start of last year due to a very stressful period and so now my insecurity with my body is at an all time high. I don't even want to go out and meet people because if I couldn't get a girlfriend when I was 30kg slimmer, why in the f*** would I have any sort of chance at 30kg fatter? I try restricting my calories and sometimes it works for a couple of weeks until the old crap starts to creep back into my diet. Being a very picky eater and not having culinary skills really doesn't help.

Sometimes I feel like I should just give up and die. I feel so deprived of romantic intimacy and I don't know how to overcome this. I feel like I can't, and there's nothing anyone else can do. I despise the fact that I had to be one of the ones who couldn't have a normal romance life and that I have to play catch-up to everyone else. I wanted to share my first kiss with someone, and mutually lose my virginity with someone, but there's a fat chance of that happening now. I can't make peace with this aspect of my life, haven't done in 10 years and I doubt I ever will if it doesn't change, so I wonder if I should just accept my fate and end my life.



Prometheus18
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23 Feb 2019, 11:43 am

Happiness as such is an illusory target. All happiness, as Schopenhauer pointed out, is tinged with sadness. It’s a by-product of facts about the nature of our biology, the scarcity of resources in any physically possible environment and the tendency of the mind to readjust itself and issue ever greater demands once its desires have been sated that we’re doomed to suffer a greater amount of pain in any life than pleasure. In consequence of this, we have Aristotle’s dictum:

ὁ φρόνιμος τὸ ἄλυπον διώκει οὐ τὸ ἡδυ.

That is, loosely, “The wise man will not seek happiness, but freedom from pain.”

Even so, there is no necessary link between the presence of a sexual relationship and happiness. I have never been in a romantic relationship, though I have had sex, and am reasonably happy and successful. In fact, the overwhelming majority of truly great mean in history led abstinent or near-abstinent lives: think of Isaac Newton, Plato, Aristotle, Gottfried Leibniz, Baruch Spinoza, Benjamin Franklin, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Nikola Tesla – and so on.

If you think you’ll be happy once you have a “girlfriend” with whom you’re having regular sexual intercourse, then just consider the nature of desire – particularly the intense and, if I may say so, rather needy desire that you’re exhibiting here: desire, upon being satisfied, does not yield any more than very fleeting happiness. It’s no coincidence that our over-sexed and overly wealthy world of today exhibits far greater levels of depression and unhappiness than at any other point in history; and this is true in almost direct proportion to the level of wealth and sexuality of the country in question. Indians, for example, seem less depressed than Russians who seem less depressed than Italians who seem less depressed than Brits – and so on.

The trouble with Asperger’s is the one-track mind: “This is the solution to my problems, and, given that I think so, I must be right and there is no other way out[/u].” Life is never that simple and, I think, the only solution for someone like you is to find some other outlet for your energy. If you focussed your energies on, for example, becoming a much stronger chessplayer – reading the literature, doing the exercises and playing the game – not only would this make you happier and feel more fulfilled, but, paradoxically, the very absence of the desperation for a romantic relationship which would result from this refocusing of attention would make one easier to obtain, though this would, I suggest be a bad reason by itself to refocus your attention. I only use the example of chess because I read somewhere that it’s one of your interests (as well as being one of mine and therefore one I’m familiar with), but any interest or hobby would work. There also needs to be harmony between mind, body and soul – as well as having an intellectual hobby like chess, you also need to find a sport or some physically stimulating hobby, as well as work on cultivating moral qualities (not to say that you aren’t already a decent enough person, but there’s no end to the need to cultivate such qualities).

You may feel that a romantic relationship is required to fulfil or “validate” you, but the facts of human psychology indicate that this is not so. I have to suggest, politely, that you have maybe been led on here by the tendency of the media to celebrate sex as the raison d’être of life. If so, you need to be aware that it only does this so as to sell more units by appealing to the base part of our nature – this philosophy isn’t a reflection of the actual facts of life objectively viewed.

I only give you this honest and uncompromising advice because I believe that you’re honest, self-aware and intelligent enough to take it onboard. I wouldn’t have bothered with most of the people here who post threads complaining about not being able to get a “girlfriend”. Please consider what I’ve said, even if it’s at first unpalatable. Don’t believe that you can’t rid yourself of the illness of need for a romantic relationship; I know that you can because I did myself. I once sought romance, though maybe not with the same tenacity you seem to, and have since been cured of it more or less entirely. The sex drive is an anachronism in modern times and, if one wants to be happy, he must rid himself of it. The Buddha actually said something similar several hundred years BC; I suggest that you consider reading him. A very good site for this is www.bdk.or.jp/english.



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23 Feb 2019, 11:49 am

You are torturing yourself unnecessarily by putting age limits on romantic milestones. There are plenty of people who have not mated by 22.

What you are not talking about are your interests and passions and what you do for fun. Well, maybe there aren't any. This is a problem. You need to do things you enjoy and gain a sense of accomplishment. Develop a hobby or a talent. Go out and meet people.

You're right about the added weight not helping any. Work out more often and eat in a healthy way. When you fall off the wagon about 2 weeks in, get right back on.

I'm not going to continue to support you in this matter, but I hope you can accept the above advice and feel good about yourself.


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23 Feb 2019, 11:56 am

Prometheus18 wrote:
Happiness as such is an illusory target. All happiness, as Schopenhauer pointed out, is tinged with sadness. It’s a by-product of facts about the nature of our biology, the scarcity of resources in any physically possible environment and the tendency of the mind to readjust itself and issue ever greater demands once its desires have been sated that we’re doomed to suffer a greater amount of pain in any life than pleasure. In consequence of this, we have Aristotle’s dictum:

ὁ φρόνιμος τὸ ἄλυπον διώκει οὐ τὸ ἡδυ.

That is, loosely, “The wise man will not seek happiness, but freedom from pain.”

Even so, there is no necessary link between the presence of a sexual relationship and happiness. I have never been in a romantic relationship, though I have had sex, and am reasonably happy and successful. In fact, the overwhelming majority of truly great mean in history led abstinent or near-abstinent lives: think of Isaac Newton, Plato, Aristotle, Gottfried Leibniz, Baruch Spinoza, Benjamin Franklin, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Nikola Tesla – and so on.

If you think you’ll be happy once you have a “girlfriend” with whom you’re having regular sexual intercourse, then just consider the nature of desire – particularly the intense and, if I may say so, rather needy desire that you’re exhibiting here: desire, upon being satisfied, does not yield any more than very fleeting happiness. It’s no coincidence that our over-sexed and overly wealthy world of today exhibits far greater levels of depression and unhappiness than at any other point in history; and this is true in almost direct proportion to the level of wealth and sexuality of the country in question. Indians, for example, seem less depressed than Russians who seem less depressed than Italians who seem less depressed than Brits – and so on.

The trouble with Asperger’s is the one-track mind: “This is the solution to my problems, and, given that I think so, I must be right and there is no other way out[/u].” Life is never that simple and, I think, the only solution for someone like you is to find some other outlet for your energy. If you focussed your energies on, for example, becoming a much stronger chessplayer – reading the literature, doing the exercises and playing the game – not only would this make you happier and feel more fulfilled, but, paradoxically, the very absence of the desperation for a romantic relationship which would result from this refocusing of attention would make one easier to obtain, though this would, I suggest be a bad reason by itself to refocus your attention. I only use the example of chess because I read somewhere that it’s one of your interests (as well as being one of mine and therefore one I’m familiar with), but any interest or hobby would work. There also needs to be harmony between mind, body and soul – as well as having an intellectual hobby like chess, you also need to find a sport or some physically stimulating hobby, as well as work on cultivating moral qualities (not to say that you aren’t already a decent enough person, but there’s no end to the need to cultivate such qualities).

You may feel that a romantic relationship is required to fulfil or “validate” you, but the facts of human psychology indicate that this is not so. I have to suggest, politely, that you have maybe been led on here by the tendency of the media to celebrate sex as the raison d’être of life. If so, you need to be aware that it only does this so as to sell more units by appealing to the base part of our nature – this philosophy isn’t a reflection of the actual facts of life objectively viewed.

I only give you this honest and uncompromising advice because I believe that you’re honest, self-aware and intelligent enough to take it onboard. I wouldn’t have bothered with most of the people here who post threads complaining about not being able to get a “girlfriend”. Please consider what I’ve said, even if it’s at first unpalatable. Don’t believe that you can’t rid yourself of the illness of need for a romantic relationship; I know that you can because I did myself. I once sought romance, though maybe not with the same tenacity you seem to, and have since been cured of it more or less entirely. The sex drive is an anachronism in modern times and, if one wants to be happy, he must rid himself of it. The Buddha actually said something similar several hundred years BC; I suggest that you consider reading him. A very good site for this is http://www.bdk.or.jp/english.


Bravo. :heart:


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DanielW
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23 Feb 2019, 11:59 am

You have to work on yourself first. If you aren't happy with yourself, it will be hard for others to find you attractive. and I don't mean in the physical sense, because someone will love/care about you no matter what your physical appearance might be.

It really doesn't matter how old you are. Until you can find happiness within yourself, you can't share it with someone else.

It sounds trite, but its true.



Jake6238
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23 Feb 2019, 12:57 pm

DanielW wrote:
You have to work on yourself first. If you aren't happy with yourself, it will be hard for others to find you attractive. and I don't mean in the physical sense, because someone will love/care about you no matter what your physical appearance might be.

It really doesn't matter how old you are. Until you can find happiness within yourself, you can't share it with someone else.

It sounds trite, but its true.


Was going to post something like this until I saw you summed it up better than I could!

Follow this advice. Healthy relationships are built on the foundation of not just love for each other but love of the self. Learn to love yourself. Find new passions. Engage with new experiences. Learn new skills. Develop yourself as a person. Live your life.


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karathraceandherspecialdestiny
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23 Feb 2019, 4:58 pm

I think the best way to practice becoming more successful developing healthy relationships when one is unhappy with oneself is to learn to treat yourself the way you would treat a partner in a relationship. Do the things for yourself that you would want a partner to do for you--support and take care of yourself, recognize and meet your emotional needs, learn to enjoy your own company and like who you are, and enjoy activities and hobbies that make you happy and better you as a person, as you would hope to share those things you are passionate about with a partner.

One of the things I had to learn about in therapy was how to parent myself, because my parents were abusive and didn't teach me much that was useful for me to have a healthy life. So I had to learn what a good parent does for their child, and do those things for myself. I bet the same principle could be applied in regards to struggling with romantic relationships.

I had to go to therapy to learn this stuff though, and I think you've said before you're against therapy. Maybe you could find some books on re-parenting and get some ideas of how to teach yourself to be good to yourself from there?



The Grand Inquisitor
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26 Feb 2019, 6:12 am

Prometheus18 wrote:
Happiness as such is an illusory target. All happiness, as Schopenhauer pointed out, is tinged with sadness. It’s a by-product of facts about the nature of our biology, the scarcity of resources in any physically possible environment and the tendency of the mind to readjust itself and issue ever greater demands once its desires have been sated that we’re doomed to suffer a greater amount of pain in any life than pleasure. In consequence of this, we have Aristotle’s dictum:

ὁ φρόνιμος τὸ ἄλυπον διώκει οὐ τὸ ἡδυ.

That is, loosely, “The wise man will not seek happiness, but freedom from pain.”

Maybe happiness isn't the word I'm looking for. I guess what I mean is freedom from the longstanding shackles of insecurity that have soured my life in terms of feeling like I must be unworthy of a partner and it must be something personal about me that makes it so I can't fulfill my desires, and with that freedom would come more freedom to feel joyous.

Prometheus18 wrote:
Even so, there is no necessary link between the presence of a sexual relationship and happiness. I have never been in a romantic relationship, though I have had sex, and am reasonably happy and successful. In fact, the overwhelming majority of truly great mean in history led abstinent or near-abstinent lives: think of Isaac Newton, Plato, Aristotle, Gottfried Leibniz, Baruch Spinoza, Benjamin Franklin, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Nikola Tesla – and so on.
They also lived in times where contraception wasn't available and/or were religious. In their own times, they probably weren't outliers, or simply unable to get sex because they're losers.

Prometheus18 wrote:
If you think you’ll be happy once you have a “girlfriend” with whom you’re having regular sexual intercourse, then just consider the nature of desire – particularly the intense and, if I may say so, rather needy desire that you’re exhibiting here: desire, upon being satisfied, does not yield any more than very fleeting happiness. It’s no coincidence that our over-sexed and overly wealthy world of today exhibits far greater levels of depression and unhappiness than at any other point in history; and this is true in almost direct proportion to the level of wealth and sexuality of the country in question. Indians, for example, seem less depressed than Russians who seem less depressed than Italians who seem less depressed than Brits – and so on.
Not being able to satisfy this particularly intense desire has been completely negative for me. First off, I don't get to receive any of the positive emotional or otherwise experiences that ideally accompany a relationship, secondly I have no other choice but to conclude that I am the common denominator and that I must be at fault or defective and there must be something wrong with me to have wanted a relationship so long but despite the strong desire be unable to get even one in 10 years. Thirdly, since I have struggled with even getting a relationship unyil now, that is indicative of the fact that I have few to no options in terms of a romantic partner. That is to say, if I can't even get any romantic partner, why should I ever be able to feel like I can get the right romantic partner. And finally, inexperience becomes a bigger deal-breaker as we age. Any prospective partner would have every reason to think there's something wrong with me since I have no relationship history in contrast with my will to have had relationships.

Prometheus18 wrote:
The trouble with Asperger’s is the one-track mind: “This is the solution to my problems, and, given that I think so, I must be right and there is no other way out[/u].” Life is never that simple and, I think, the only solution for someone like you is to find some other outlet for your energy. If you focussed your energies on, for example, becoming a much stronger chessplayer – reading the literature, doing the exercises and playing the game – not only would this make you happier and feel more fulfilled, but, paradoxically, the very absence of the desperation for a romantic relationship which would result from this refocusing of attention would make one easier to obtain, though this would, I suggest be a bad reason by itself to refocus your attention. I only use the example of chess because I read somewhere that it’s one of your interests (as well as being one of mine and therefore one I’m familiar with), but any interest or hobby would work. There also needs to be harmony between mind, body and soul – as well as having an intellectual hobby like chess, you also need to find a sport or some physically stimulating hobby, as well as work on cultivating moral qualities (not to say that you aren’t already a decent enough person, but there’s no end to the need to cultivate such qualities).

You may feel that a romantic relationship is required to fulfil or “validate” you, but the facts of human psychology indicate that this is not so. I have to suggest, politely, that you have maybe been led on here by the tendency of the media to celebrate sex as the raison d’être of life. If so, you need to be aware that it only does this so as to sell more units by appealing to the base part of our nature – this philosophy isn’t a reflection of the actual facts of life objectively viewed.


I really don't think the sexed up media and tv is the reason I feel the way I do. It doesn't help, sure but I'm quite certain that my desires are natural rather than manufactured. I would also point out that I'm much more interested in a romantic relationship itself than I am in sex. My take on why I feel the way I do is that I had the desire for a relationship set in during puberty and set in quite strong, and throughout the last 10 years I've seen basically everyone I know at one point or another in a relationship, everyone else has passed those milestones and I am forced to accept that despite wanting one, romantic relationships are a part of life, they're just not a part of my life. It can be difficult feeling left out even when you don't care all that much about what you're being excluded from, but when it's just about the strongest desire you could ever even perceive yourself having and you just are never able to satisfy it but you have to watch other people satisfy that same desire, that's just torture. This is probably a larger reason I keep to myself and don't go out in the world all that much than I even consciously realise.

Prometheus18 wrote:
I only give you this honest and uncompromising advice because I believe that you’re honest, self-aware and intelligent enough to take it onboard. I wouldn’t have bothered with most of the people here who post threads complaining about not being able to get a “girlfriend”. Please consider what I’ve said, even if it’s at first unpalatable. Don’t believe that you can’t rid yourself of the illness of need for a romantic relationship; I know that you can because I did myself. I once sought romance, though maybe not with the same tenacity you seem to, and have since been cured of it more or less entirely. The sex drive is an anachronism in modern times and, if one wants to be happy, he must rid himself of it. The Buddha actually said something similar several hundred years BC; I suggest that you consider reading him. A very good site for this is http://www.bdk.or.jp/english.

I'll certainly take it into account



The Grand Inquisitor
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26 Feb 2019, 6:24 am

BeaArthur wrote:
You are torturing yourself unnecessarily by putting age limits on romantic milestones. There are plenty of people who have not mated by 22.


It's more that my past experiences (or lack thereof} have set a precedent that I'm not satisfied with in the least. Why should I think I'll be able to get a relationship, let alone with someone who's compatible with me if I've gone this long wanting one and not getting one? Like, I have no reason to feel as though women I'm interested in, or even women in general view me as a prospective romantic partner, so why shouldn't I feel as though things will deviate from the norm established in the past 10 years?

BeaArthur wrote:
What you are not talking about are your interests and passions and what you do for fun. Well, maybe there aren't any. This is a problem. You need to do things you enjoy and gain a sense of accomplishment. Develop a hobby or a talent. Go out and meet people.
!In what way does this help me get a relationship?

BeaArthur wrote:
You're right about the added weight not helping any. Work out more often and eat in a healthy way. When you fall off the wagon about 2 weeks in, get right back on.

At this stage I'm trying to eat reasonably on weekdays and only have sugary treats and all the rest of it on weekends. So far it's working alright



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26 Feb 2019, 6:27 am

DanielW wrote:
You have to work on yourself first. If you aren't happy with yourself, it will be hard for others to find you attractive. and I don't mean in the physical sense, because someone will love/care about you no matter what your physical appearance might be.

It really doesn't matter how old you are. Until you can find happiness within yourself, you can't share it with someone else.

It sounds trite, but its true.

I do agree with this, but the catch 22 here is the main reason I'm unhappy with my life and myself is romantic loneliness



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26 Feb 2019, 12:36 pm

The Grand Inquisitor wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
What you are not talking about are your interests and passions and what you do for fun. Well, maybe there aren't any. This is a problem. You need to do things you enjoy and gain a sense of accomplishment. Develop a hobby or a talent. Go out and meet people.
!In what way does this help me get a relationship?

It makes you a more interesting person.

It gives you positive things to talk about, so you don't come across as so negative.

Also it hopefully makes you seem less needy or desperate.

Finally, it gives you venues where you might meet interesting and compatible people to date.


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26 Feb 2019, 1:13 pm

You are...how old? 21? Unless you can't count, at 21 you know that you have got the whole of your 20s ahead of you where things could change (ie, getting a girlfriend), and if not you have still got the rest of your life.
And how is not having a girlfriend at 21 too late? You're only starting out in life. Most NTs haven't met the love of their lives at 21, or even had a proper relationship at all.


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26 Feb 2019, 1:36 pm

Prometheus makes some very good points worth contemplating.

Grand, you may have previously posted an answer to this question in other threads on WP, but what steps are you currently of have you recently taken to meet women face to face?



The Grand Inquisitor
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26 Feb 2019, 9:21 pm

Joe90 wrote:
You are...how old? 21? Unless you can't count, at 21 you know that you have got the whole of your 20s ahead of you where things could change (ie, getting a girlfriend), and if not you have still got the rest of your life.
And how is not having a girlfriend at 21 too late? You're only starting out in life. Most NTs haven't met the love of their lives at 21, or even had a proper relationship at all.

I'm 22. Well, more accurately 22.5 since my birthday is a bit less than 6 months away. Maybe things can change but considering my past experiences (or lack thereof), my inability to be successful in any of the avenues I've tried, there isn't much of a reason to believe anything is going to change, at least in any kind of near future. At least if I'd had even relationships in the past I'd be able to be comforted by the fact that it's a possibility and not feel as though there's more reason to believe I'll always be overlooked at that capacity than that I will be able to cultivate a romantic relationship with someone in the future. I do have most of my 20s ahead of me, but so far the evidence I've accrued throughout my life suggests that my successes will be minimal, if even existent at all.

Not getting a girlfriend by 22 isn't necessarily too late, it's just not very encouraging in terms of my options romantically. If no one has wanted to date me up to this point, why would that change?

Moat NTs haven't met the love of their lives by 22, but they have had relationships, sexual experience and all the rest of it. Any way you spin it, I'm miles ahead of them and I've seen women comment on the fact that they don't have time for adult virgins. With every passing year all that's happening is I'm falling further and further behind everyone else my age and at a certain point pretty much no one will want to date someone who's inexperienced. They'll wonder what was so wrong with me that despite wanting these experiences I couldn't find a willing partner, and I wouldn't blame them for wondering because there must be something wrong with me.



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26 Feb 2019, 9:29 pm

Magna wrote:
Grand, you may have previously posted an answer to this question in other threads on WP, but what steps are you currently of have you recently taken to meet women face to face?

At the moment, honestly nothing because I dont feel like I have a chance in hell of receiving a favourable outcome. If I couldn't be successful at a better weight, I've got no optimism for being successful 30kg heavier.

Things I've tried in the past were joining a couple of online social groups which transpired into real life meetings, going to events, meeting friends of friends, going clubbing, even went to an interest group or two and nothing came to fruition for me, in fact in a couple of those scenarios I had to watch other people pair up instead and I'd just end up really depressed from that, so I'm not in a particular hurry to put myself out there again when the chance of any kind of success seems so low and there's a higher chance of seeing other people pair up and becoming depressed by it.



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26 Feb 2019, 10:28 pm

If you continue as you are doing, you will have the same exact complaint at age 32. I promise you. No romantic angel is going to descend upon you from the ceiling of your bedroom and make you a happy man.

Probably the reason those meetups and social groups didn't "get you a girlfriend" but did for others, is that you went with the aim of getting a girlfriend. I was recommending you develop some talents or hobbies and become a more interesting person, but that doesn't seem to be what you were doing.

I can't help you, I'm sorry.


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