I feel like I'm an aspie...

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but I know nothing except that I want to know.

I took a couple of tests and both suggested I might be an aspie. I'm including the results here after reading a few other posts and the frequency with which people ask the original poster to post their results.

Aspie quiz:
Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 136 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 67 of 200

The other one was a simpler test that had me well over the threshold. Like a 34 when the threshold was much lower. And yes, I understand these are simplistic and limited online tests. There is a great deal more I discovered and connected with before taking these tests that led to some 'Aha!' moments that made me believe I might be an aspie.

I started seeing a new therapist recently, and as we reviewed my previous diagnoses and my thoughts on what conditions I might consider for myself, one possibility I suggested was Asperger's. He said I couldn’t be an aspie because I exhibit empathy, and at that moment I accepted his counter and we moved on to other ideas. Next session, I am planning to challenge his statement after discovering that empathy can be divided into two (one paper suggested three) types. Not to mention his area of expertise does not include AS diagnosis. First, yes, I am empathetic but only in an emotional or effective manner, as I struggle with cognitive empathy. I know people are feeling bad, and I feel for them, but I have no idea how to respond, feel uncomfortable around their emotions, and often don’t understand why they feel as they do or why they don't get over it more readily. If they want a hug or physical touch as an aspect of feeling better? It makes me even more uncomfortable and leaves me feeling awkward.

So, the belief that aspies and autistic people don't exhibit empathy? Research suggests this is untrue. Is anyone able to confirm for me before my next appointment on Wednesday?

I’ve also listened to aspies speak on podcasts, read their stories online, and I experienced a resonance and a feeling of finally finding an answer that fits... yet everyone I speak to pushes back on the possibility of AS and tries to diagnose me bipolar, OCD, or something else before pushing pills on me. First, yes, I might be some of these things. In addition to or instead of AS even. Second, I see two different therapists and they completely disagree on diagnoses. The one that said bipolar? The other one disagrees. OCD he says. They both agree I suffer from anxiety, but anxiety can come from many sources including AS.

My bipolar diagnosis never felt right and it didn't fit very well. Aside from my own disagreement regarding that diagnosis, the people closest to me and my current therapist disagree with the diagnosis. After hearing my current therapist agree that bipolar doesn't seem like the correct diagnosis, I brought up Asperger's since I had previously discovered AS can be misdiagnosed as bipolar. None of the therapists I've seen in my life were actually qualified to diagnose AS. Could it have been missed? As to the current therapist rejecting it as possible? After research and discovering that his one disqualifier isn't accurate, I spent hours researching, listened to people with AS talk about their lives on a podcast, read forum and blog posts by aspies, and once again felt a degree of certainty. I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel wrong. Could it have been missed? Could I be an aspie?

Having lived with my issues as long as I have, I've gotten pretty good at hiding them and avoiding my triggers. Really, I've gotten good at living in my room and rarely interacting with people outside of my current work which requires minimal interaction with people. Ultimately, I just want to know why I’m so odd and can’t understand people and feel like they don't understand me. There are plenty of other issues from the AS dossier I exhibit, too, but that lack of understanding and feeling understood are definitely near the top of my concerns. If I'm bipolar, aspie, or a sociopath... fine. I just want to figure it out so I can move forward through better understanding of why I am the way I am, and why sometimes I feel like my reactions and issues are beyond my control.

Anyway, hi. Consider me introduced. I'm hoping this place will help me over the course of my therapy as I try to determine exactly who I am.

I am most definitely an aspie, but I consider myself to be an empath. I am always asking people, "Something's up, are you okay?" and they will always act all surprised and be all, "yeah, how could you tell?" And then I pretend to listen to them while they pour out their feelings to me. JK, I do actually try to listen, but you know how it is... Anyway, I hate to say it, well actually no, I relish in saying what I'm about to say: Your therapist is a quack.

Hi, betty_ferret. Thanks for the response. I checked out a few of your other posts, and I'll say outright... some of your initial experiences remind me of how things feel for me sometimes in the world offline. Misunderstanding other people's motives, being untrusting... I used to be so trusting as to be gullible in a way, but life and patterns of being screwed over by trusting too easily have left me cynical and at times paranoid. People can suck, and we can start to assume the worst of them. I hope this place has been helpful and comforting for you after your initial difficulties.

I'm still struggling with it all, still searching, and I'm looking forward to Wednesday when I get to call the doctor a quack. Okay, I won't call him a quack, but I'll be giving him an interrogatory that will be designed to ascertain his competency and whether he will be a worthwhile partner in my ongoing mission to understand who I am and why I am the way I am. I'm fairly bright, so I believe I can effectively question him to determine whether I should look for someone else after spending the better part of the last few days researching and reading up on several different potential diagnoses including AS. If I can catch him committing to a statement such as AS not having empathy after my research, I'll know he can't be relied upon.

Welcome to Wrong Planet

Welcome to Wrong Planet.
Aspies come with a variety of traits and not every Aspie exhibits the same traits.
As an Aspie, overwhelming stress can lead to the development of many secondary traits such as bipolar and OCD.
These secondary traits are prominent in Aspies.

Ideally, you would get a diagnoses from an expert in autism, but the $1500 or so it typically costs is too high for many Aspies.

If you just want an opinion, rather than an official diagnosis, one idea may be to seek out someone who works with people on the spectrum. Someone that works day in and day out with lots of people on the spectrum is likely to "know," even if they don't have a medical degree. Just a matter of seeing autistics in person for thousand and thousands of hours.

Welcome to Wrong Planet!

Welcome to WP!

OP, how are you defining empathy? In its most basic definition, empathy simply means knowing how another person feels in a given situation. You can empathize with your enemies (even if you don't care that they're suffering).

My rival broke his leg! Good for him! I broke my leg, too. I know what it's like and how difficult it is recovering. I don't feel sorry for him, but I know exactly what he's going through!

That is empathy. It has nothing to do with sympathy and feeling sorry for someone. It simply means knowing what it's like to be in a given situation, regardless of how you feel about the person in said situation.

More broadly, empathy is equated with feeling another person's pain, even if you have no experience with it yourself.

My neighbors house burned down. I've never been in that situation, but listening to her talk and seeing the charred foundation nextdoor, I feel like it's happening to me, and feel the emotions she's feeling, and know what she's going through even though I myself haven't experienced it personally.

In this broader definition, empathy means vicarious feeling, or, at least, responding in a socially-acceptable way that seems like how the person suffering would want you to react.

Regardless, empathy isn't the main issue with having Asperger's, however you define empathy. I think your therapist is simply unfamiliar with Asperger's (and possibly empathy) and is using that one thing to dismiss your concerns. (Very empathetic of him, isn't it?)

Empathy aside, why do you really feel you have AS?

My only concern there is unless I am able to 'turn off' all of my learned behaviors, which over the last 30 or so years have become somewhat ingrained, I can seem very 'normal'. The stress of it, acting normal, is becoming more and more problematic as the years go by. When I meet someone new, I am nervous and a bit off, but like a reflex, my learned behaviors tend to be prominent. Still, a good suggestion, and I'm willing to give it a go.

As far as empathy, I hadn't really looked into it too much before the therapist used it as the disqualifier. I plan to get him to expand upon that statement before challenging him. I didn't ask him more at the time, and he might have meant it in a different way. I frequently misunderstand people.

Still, after research, I define empathy as cognitive and emotional/effective. I have trouble with cognitive empathy, I think. I mean, I can often see that they are in pain (when it's obvious), and then I get uncomfortable because the right response is not instinctual. I can't stand hugging people or touching people for the most part. It makes me uncomfortable. And when people are hurting, physically or otherwise? I care, in the sense that if I could snap my fingers and make it better I would, but outside of that fantasy I rarely if ever understand how to help or make it better - I mean, if they were injured, I learned basic first aid, so sure. I'd rather deal with a physical than an emotional injury any day of the week, as the signs and solutions are very specific and consistent. I think I have emotional empathy because I see a woman crying, for instance, and I feel bad, like I want to help, but I have no idea how, and I get uncomfortable and want to leave. I don't do hugs or comforting touches. I don't like anyone standing too near me, let alone a hug.

Empathy aside, I've listened to podcasts and read blogs, and the stories and experiences resonate. I often say things matter of factly and truthfully and unintentionally hurt people's feelings, then have to have it explained to me. I can, usually, pick up on the shift when they get angry or sad these days if I know them well, but not always. People misunderstand what I say or why I say it and create their own narrative of the why, and in turn, I have trouble understanding what other people mean. I've gotten better at asking people what they mean lately, but it seems to get on people's nerves as if I should just know. I used to nod and smile but have no idea half the time. Especially with some jokes, sarcasm, irony, though idioms not as much... I mean, yes, at first, the idiom makes no sense, but then someone explains it to me or I look it up and it simply becomes a phrase that means something and I understand what people are trying to say when they use it.

And conversations! I never can figure out whose turn it is to speak and especially in groups (better one on one but I can easily dominate the conversation if the other doesn't tell me I'm talking too much and especially if it is about something I am interested in), I struggle between telling people they are boring me (desire for honesty) and pretending to listen if it is something I am not interested in, and I've never wanted to look people in the face or eyes. I spent several years forcing myself to look people in the eyes, and I know I did a poor job because I was told so. I stared too much and too intently trying to overcompensate, but by the end I think I had it down - I counted and timed it based on suggestions I read online, creating a sort of action-series designed to simulate what I imagined the appropriate amount of looking, nodding, looking away, and looking back again would be like. I've spent years watching tv and people trying to mimic proper behavior in interacting. Conversations, outside of very formulaic ones such as interviews, which I spent copious amounts of time researching and practicing, and first dates, which become somewhat ritualistic with time, remain difficult for me.

I have difficulty with friendships, and the ones I've done best with are the ones I keep my real self in check, overly focus on them and their problems (and I do care, sort of, but it does get boring listening to them), and try to make them feel like the center of attention (which the longer I am with people, the more of the real me comes out and I just ramble about things I like and read about). I like the familiarity of 'friends', but I've always been able to discard them or be discarded with minimal concern. Even long-term friendships. I'm simply not attached to people strongly ever. Even family. Even my mother. And for the most part, I'd rather be alone. Except when there are activities I want to engage in that require other people. Part of wanting to be alone is because of how difficult people are, and how awkward I feel around them, and even though I have learned how to act (by acting like someone I am not) to increase the odds of people liking me, the energy involved, the anxiety of being someone I am not to appease others has become so exhausting that I no longer care? I'd rather be alone.

I can't stand sarcasm or lying. Even white lies. I had people convince me that I should become okay telling white lies, so I did, but then it was easy to convince myself that telling lies was easier than the truth especially when I watched so many people around me lying so easily about so many things - cheating on each other, telling someone they were sick when they weren't, and so on. When I listened and hid my boredom or disinterest, people would open up to me and I would learn all sorts of things about them, and often, they weren't the best of people.

I've never felt at ease in social settings, and I started drinking to make it easier. I was the odd guy that would go to the restroom after every beer or two and do an analysis of my inebriation versus a reduction in my anxiety and unease as I learned precisely how much alcohol I needed to balance my desire to run away against the expectation of others that I socialize. Social lubricant I called it jokingly to people. I got that from someone. I don't remember who.

And my first instinct is to take things at face value. To be literal. I've learned people speak sideways or insincerely, though, and I try to second guess everything people say sometimes, especially if I don't know them well or trust them. And I have trust issues. I used to be very trusting. Naive. Gullible. But after being taken advantage of too many times, I've become cynical of people, even paranoid at times. This is problematic. It makes me more anxious because I imagine everything could have a different meaning. I really wish people would just say what they mean.

I abhor chit chat and small talk. I don't even understand why people insist on greeting each other every day if they see each other regularly. Hi. Hello. How was your day? Oh, that was rhetorical. Why do we ask rhetorical questions? I've never understood that. I wish people would stop.

Rules. I was a boy scout for the most part. Literally and figuratively. I'm not good with figurative language as a general rule, but that one I know. Jobs I've had, I'm the by the book guy. I actually read it if there is one. Then end up being the only one that knows it and tries to adhere to it. Many of them actually create contradictory and nearly impossible rules or rules that, if followed, would make it impossible to do your job in the time they expect. Which is why people don't follow them, I think... because you can't do it all in the time they give. I would try anyway, and sometimes I would manage to, but then people around me would dislike me for it. I was told I was making them look bad. I would get offered promotions very readily and after only working somewhere for a short time though. I didn't take pride in doing a good job or doing things the right way exactly, I just did them that way because that was the expectation. The agreement. The rule.

Anger issues. Meltdowns maybe? Looking back, I'm not certain what the triggers were. Loud sounds can definitely set me on edge. The gardeners were by with their leaf blower today and as it got close to my window, it started this buzzing, this... discomfort that makes it impossible to focus and makes me... unhappy... agitated? Being in a restaurant... or a bar... a club... oh how I can't stand clubs... the noise, the people... all of it. Alcohol helps, but I don't really like to drink. Never did. Except for the calming of things it could sometimes create.

And I've read about special interests and how all-consuming they can be. I definitely have my special interests, but I've never been sure if they are intense enough. Dungeons and Dragons and video games, I can go on for hours and hours about. I've never outgrown them. History and theology, too. Unless it is something I am interested in, I can have trouble focusing, but if I am interested? I can focus on it intently for hours. I've played the same game for more than 24 hours at a time before only stopping when my biological needs become pressing. If I'm reading or learning about something I am interested in, my memory can be quite exceptional, but if I'm not, it can be very difficult to retain much of it unless I utilize multiple memory retention strategies that force focus (note taking, for instance).

People with AS have talked about the difficulty of remembering or thinking or caring to do basic functions such as bathing regularly, and difficulty being organized. Both are true of me. I don't like having my tasks interrupted and refer to resolve them one at a time as well.

Okay, that was a bit of a ramble, but I just wanted to let it flow out of me onto the... screen? It feels more honest that way.

Edits: Minor typos and a couple of unclear sentences. Had to fix them. They irk me.

Last edited by Vagabond Soul on 26 Mar 2019, 8:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Yes, comorbidity is a problem for me. The one thing my therapists and I have agreed on, it's not just one thing I'm coping with. The thing for me though is this... we can look at three different diagnoses to try to explain all of my issues or one. AS is that one. Stress and anxiety are byproducts, of this we're pretty sure. Of AS or two to three other things? That is what I am trying to figure out.

As I said in my original post, one doctor said bipolar, the other said OCD. AS is often misdiagnosed as bipolar, and now you're saying my most recent suggested disorder, OCD, can be a secondary trait of AS when under a great deal of stress and anxiety. Just more reinforcing of my belief that I have been an undiagnosed AS my whole life. This last couple of years have been extremely stressful and anxiety-inducing. I almost died and ended up hospitalized for a while, my life fell apart financially, emotionally, and physically as I couldn't walk for several months, and I all but had a breakdown as a result of extreme and constant anxiety as I forced myself to chase employment based solely on income rather than the kind of work I know I am suited to. I thought I had it all under control until I suddenly learned I didn't. Hence my being here and seeking therapy and evaluation.

To all who have responded, thank you. Saying thank you and accepting thanks, praise, etc. don't come naturally to me. But I'm told it's the polite thing to do. So, thank you. And for the record, I am thankful, often in life. I just don't feel like we all need to say it so much. I digress. Fini.

Hey dude, recognise a lot of what you say in myself tbh.

I’m not formally diagnosed as yet, a new consultant of mine says he thinks it’s highly likely. And like you I’ve had many diagnosis over the years.

Regarding getting a formal diagnosis, I agree with the theory people shouldn’t have to sit under labels, but in practice that’s not something my head will relax about.

I’ve had 20 years of sloshing about in my own chaotic algorithm, as I’ve tried to figure out what’s me, what’s illness, what can I change, what can’t I change... along the way diagnoses have been tossed in, both formal and self-concluded. I’ve even had times where I’ve wondered if I’m just making it all up.

So yeah, even at 40, I feel it’s really important I get a formal diagnosis, whatever the cost.

I’m tired and worn out by all I mentioned feeling so unique to me, to find out it’s not so bespoke will make me feel a lot less lonely deep down.

I’m already feeling benefits from having a pencilled in diagnosis, it feels like I’m now being allowed to hold a template (no matter how rough) against things I’d lost all perspective on. I can work with that, focus my energy where I can actually make improvements, and care less about things that were baked in.