Your race or sex means you can't speak on this.

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Should people be banned from expressing opinions on any topic based on their race or sex?
Yes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Sometimes 15%  15%  [ 5 ]
No 85%  85%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 34

Crimadella
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31 Mar 2019, 9:09 pm

I'm just curious how many people buy into identity politics, I personally see them as very harmful as they are just another flavor of discrimination. Everyone should have equal rights and the freedom to express an opinion on any topic, not race nor sex should be a factor that would prevent one from being able to express an opinion on any topic.

Feel free to express your opinions on the topic.

----- Options ------

Yes: Discrimination due to race or biological sex is perfectly fine

Sometimes: Sometimes it is ok to discriminate on someone because of their race or biological sex

No: It is not OK to discriminate on anyone because of their race or biological sex



Last edited by Crimadella on 31 Mar 2019, 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

RushKing
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31 Mar 2019, 9:24 pm

No,

I believe voices from all "races", sexes and gender identities, are necessary to dismantle systems of oppression.



Antrax
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31 Mar 2019, 9:59 pm

I'm on record saying identity politics are toxic. Any restrictions on topical speaking based on race or sex is a form of racism or sexism.

Explain to me why what I stated is incorrect if you think I'm incorrect, but don't tell me I say things just because of my skin color/sex. If possible use logos driven arguments and not pathos driven arguments. I've been told my empathy is poor and such arguments will likely make me more likely to dismiss you. Ethos driven arguments can be effective on me under the right circumstances.

Argumentum ad authoritum is a logical fallacy. Just because I'm "privileged" doesn't mean I'm wrong.


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Crimadella
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31 Mar 2019, 10:04 pm

RushKing wrote:
No,

I believe voices from all "races", sexes and gender identities, are necessary to dismantle systems of oppression.


I agree with you, but for many reasons. Some people within the left say some pretty crazy things that are just as radical as the alt-right. They act as if it's not racist or sexist but it is. Like, just the other day I heard a report about some leftists actually insisting that mixed couples should not be allowed. I'm not a fan of people pretending to be fighting for equality while holding sexist or racist views, it boggles my mind how people can't connect the dots and see the obvious contradictions.

Edit: It's a stradagey to prove a point.



ASPartOfMe
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01 Apr 2019, 1:06 am

No speech should be banned unless it directly threatens people.

A persons experience should be taken into account when debating the merits of an opinion. This can work both ways sometimes one can be "too close" to a situation and a outsider can get closer to the truth.

A lot of decisions involving womens issues do directly or indirectly effect men, same idea for race or neurology issues so others should have a say. "Nothing for us, without us" should not mean exclude all allistics.


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graceksjp
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01 Apr 2019, 1:41 am

Personally? Sometimes, YES. Certain people from other races and cultures and genders cannot and should not speak up about a certain topic.

For example, there are certain topics that should be ladies only. A guy does not have the right to talk about periods. Period.
Another example: dont criticize, judge, or try to explain or whatever a culture you know nothing about! As a kpop fan, I see so many American kpoppers who try and talk about Korean culture or make judgements about things in idols lives when they have no way of understanding because they dont live there.
You know how white people cant say the n-word? There are just some lines you cant cross. Some things, need to stay between like people.

Now if we're talking politics within the United States. Than, no. I think everyone should be able to express their opinion.


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Antrax
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01 Apr 2019, 2:13 am

graceksjp wrote:
Another example: dont criticize, judge, or try to explain or whatever a culture you know nothing about! As a kpop fan, I see so many American kpoppers who try and talk about Korean culture or make judgements about things in idols lives when they have no way of understanding because they dont live there.


This is based on culture and upbringing not race or sex. For example a 3rd generation Korean immigrant in the US would have no more knowledge of modern Korean culture than a 3rd generation European immigrant. Likewise a white person who grew up in Korea would know a lot more about Korean culture than said 3rd generation Korean immigrant.

I personally don't think it is taboo to discuss cultures you didn't grow up in, but with the understanding that a truly deep understanding of the culture necessitates an immersive experience.

graceksjp wrote:
You know how white people cant say the n-word? There are just some lines you cant cross. Some things, need to stay between like people.


A word is taboo or it isn't. It should be no more acceptable for a person of a certain race to use a slur that describes their own race, than to use a slur that describes another race. In practice people are more accepting, but that doesn't mean they should be.


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Crimadella
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01 Apr 2019, 2:33 am

graceksjp wrote:
Personally? Sometimes, YES. Certain people from other races and cultures and genders cannot and should not speak up about a certain topic.

For example, there are certain topics that should be ladies only. A guy does not have the right to talk about periods. Period.
Another example: dont criticize, judge, or try to explain or whatever a culture you know nothing about! As a kpop fan, I see so many American kpoppers who try and talk about Korean culture or make judgements about things in idols lives when they have no way of understanding because they dont live there.
You know how white people cant say the n-word? There are just some lines you cant cross. Some things, need to stay between like people.

Now if we're talking politics within the United States. Than, no. I think everyone should be able to express their opinion.


I can give an example that would prove your statement about men discussing women's periods incorrect. It is not wrong for a male doctor to discuss a woman's period. It's not wrong to have an opinion on any subject, certain people can be more informed on particular subjects, most people are capable of learning particular subjects, a male doctor can be more informed about periods than women themselves. Either way, people in no way at all should be told they can't have or express an opinion on any topic. That does not mean others have to accept that opinion or that their opinion is correct but it becomes disrimination when you suggest someone cannot express an opinion simply because of their race or sex. People are allowed to freely think and express opinions. The subject doesn't matter at all.



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01 Apr 2019, 2:55 am

Well I don't think race or sex usually matter, but I think that when it comes to certain topics, women should be listened more than men and on some others men should be listened more than women.

For examble, abortion. Women are the ones whose lives get restricted and affected by pregnancy, women are the ones who go through the pain of childbirth and risk their health and life while at it, so when it comes to discussing about abortion, I think a woman's word weighs more.

Another example is military service. Here in Finland, men have to go through military- or civil service by certain age (unless they have a disability serious enough to free them from both.) Some manage to make their way around it apparently, but they're very few. Those who refuse to do either end up in jail. This would be completely fine if women had to do the same, but we don't. The way I see it, the system should be changed in a way that us women would also have to choose between military- or civil service... or jail. That's what I'd prefer, but another option would be to make going to the military optional for men as well (women get to go too if they want to and pass the tests, but no woman has ever had to go.) Then again, I believe my word weighs less on this particular topic than any Finnish man's (note: Finnish man. The words of men from other countries that aren't affected by Finland's laws wouldn't weigh nearly as much as a Finn's would) since I haven't been forced to do anything because of these laws and rules, unlike them. It doesn't affect women nearly as much as it affects men, so naturally men's opinions should have more value on the matter, just like women's opinions should matter far more when it comes to matters directly linked to their bodies.



Antrax
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01 Apr 2019, 3:03 am

Fireblossom wrote:
For examble, abortion. Women are the ones whose lives get restricted and affected by pregnancy, women are the ones who go through the pain of childbirth and risk their health and life while at it, so when it comes to discussing about abortion, I think a woman's word weighs more.


Abortion is actually really simple. You either believe a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human life or you don't. If you believe the cellular material that will become a human is a human life than the practice of abortion is murder and should be banned. If you believe the cellular material that will become a human life is part of the mother's body than preventing her from having an abortion is a heinous violation of her rights.

It's really a metaphysical philosophical issue not a women's issue. The answer to whether abortion should or should not be legal is solely due to a determination of when human life begins. A woman's word on that question should carry no more weight than a man's word.


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01 Apr 2019, 3:07 am

Antrax wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
For examble, abortion. Women are the ones whose lives get restricted and affected by pregnancy, women are the ones who go through the pain of childbirth and risk their health and life while at it, so when it comes to discussing about abortion, I think a woman's word weighs more.


Abortion is actually really simple. You either believe a zygote/embryo/fetus is a human life or you don't. If you believe the cellular material that will become a human is a human life than the practice of abortion is murder and should be banned. If you believe the cellular material that will become a human life is part of the mother's body than preventing her from having an abortion is a heinous violation of her rights.

It's really a metaphysical philosophical issue not a women's issue. The answer to whether abortion should or should not be legal is solely due to a determination of when human life begins. A woman's word on that question should carry no more weight than a man's word.


Well yes, if one believes that the fetus is human and has full human rights the moment it comes to existence, then it's not a women's issue, but when it's considered to be a part of a woman's body/a parasite living off of it, then it's an issue about women's rights and so a woman's word should weigh more.



magz
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01 Apr 2019, 3:37 am

I see a clear distinction between those two:

1. Banning someone from expressing opinion on topic X because of Y
2. Finding one's opinion on topic X less valuable because of Y

I think you should never ban someone from expressing opinions for reasons other than violating agreed rules of discussion;
However, weight of one's opinion can depend on many factors, one's race and sex included.
Like, living in Eastern Europe, I have only theoretical knowledge about Indigenous Americans, so my opinions on topics related to them would be far less valuable than expiriences and family stories of an actual Indigenous American.


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Wolfram87
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01 Apr 2019, 3:56 am

If someone else was to decide whether or not you could have an abortion, would you prefer it be Sarah Palin or Bernie Sanders?


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naturalplastic
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01 Apr 2019, 6:56 am

I am the stereotypical SJW, so ONLY WHITE STRAIGHT MEN should be censored! That's what I think! :lol:


Just kidding, and just kidding, and just kidding.

I cant think of a reason for banning someone for expressing an opinion just because of their gender or race.

If I wanna advertise my ignorance about something then that's my right.

And if someone else wants to call me out me for my ignorance then that's their right as well. So it kinda evens out.



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01 Apr 2019, 7:35 am

magz wrote:
I see a clear distinction between those two:

1. Banning someone from expressing opinion on topic X because of Y
2. Finding one's opinion on topic X less valuable because of Y

I think you should never ban someone from expressing opinions for reasons other than violating agreed rules of discussion;
However, weight of one's opinion can depend on many factors, one's race and sex included.
Like, living in Eastern Europe, I have only theoretical knowledge about Indigenous Americans, so my opinions on topics related to them would be far less valuable than expiriences and family stories of an actual Indigenous American.


This is actually a pretty good and clear take on things.



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01 Apr 2019, 7:46 am

No, I can't speak, as well as a woman, about "periods," because I've never experienced a "period."

But I do have some knowledge of what woman go through when they have their period. Because I have had girlfriends who have suffered things like fibroid tumors and such. And good ole PMS. It's no picnic.....

Obviously, I could not explain the pains of childbirth----because I will never experience it. I've never actually seen childbirth in person---but I've seen it in videos and on TV. I can assert that it can be quite a painful experience.

I can't speak of the "black experience" because I am not black. But I do have a somewhat decent idea about the "black experience" from both knowing black people, and reading about the "black experience" in printed media.

I believe in having an opinion about the above subjects, and the ability to express them. But not to be presumptuous about them. Not to believe I am an "authority" on them.

Just like I wouldn't mind it if a black person spoke about my "advantages" in being white---my experiences as a white person. But this person is no "expert" on it. And there are ways I could possibly rebut what the person says.