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Metal Rat
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10 Dec 2019, 6:45 am

If I am right, and Stalin is as much like Hitler as I believe him to be, then the efforts to instill nostalgia, for US Military Involvement in The Second World War, is, in truth, an evil joke. After all, America destroyed one of Europe's most infamous tyrannies, Nazi Germany, merely to make life easier for another of Europe's most infamous tyrannies, Commie Russia. Both had systems of Prison Camps wherein their victims were tortured, butchered, and worked to death in the most horrid ways one can envision.



shlaifu
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10 Dec 2019, 7:25 am

As you may know, the Americans were initially reluctant to oppose the Fascists, as they saw them as a bullwark against communism.

After ww1 and the financial crisis, it looked like there was the threat of overthrow of all elites everywhere, and fascism for a while looked like a good idea to maintain the existing order. But then the Germans started to conquer too much of Europe and become a threat to American power. The Americans didn't so much work together with the Russians, but against the Germans.

America made itself believe in interventionalism in the name of freedom and democracy, and was since steered by its elites to see enemies of freedom in whoever the elites saw as a threat - not uncommonly, democratically elected leaders of countries, particularly in South America.

Do you think it's an accident that freedom always meant capitalism? That freeing a country through intervention always meant opening it up to American investment? - investment in a war-torn country sounds nice, but investors expect to make profits.

I'm not saying Communism worked in any way, but it depends on definition of whether being part of "the free world" is always better than having a socialist in power.
Have a look at the History of Chile, from the 70s to the riots today.


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Metal Rat
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10 Dec 2019, 7:31 am

shlaifu wrote:
As you may know, the Americans were initially reluctant to oppose the Fascists, as they saw them as a bullwark against communism.


That is weird. Today, Fascism, Nazism particularly, is perceived as the Ultimate Evil!



Bradleigh
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10 Dec 2019, 7:56 am

America did send back Jewish refugees back to Germany, that is how much they did not care until it started to become too obvious.


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Metal Rat
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10 Dec 2019, 9:37 am

Bradleigh wrote:
America did send back Jewish refugees back to Germany, that is how much they did not care until it started to become too obvious.

So too, did Joseph Stalin. Was he an anti-Semite, too?



Bradleigh
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10 Dec 2019, 10:05 am

When did I say someone was an anti-Semite? My point was that a nation likes to hide the facts that look bad retroactively, seeing themselves as always principled. Like to pretend always against fascism, while ignoring that some people did not see a problem, some people approved of it even, and some people would actually like to see something similar return now.

Seems nice when you can say that you can recognise evil, but would be surprised by even people who seem so sure cannot recognise evil.


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Metal Rat
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10 Dec 2019, 11:33 am

Bradleigh wrote:
When did I say someone was an anti-Semite? My point was that a nation likes to hide the facts that look bad retroactively, seeing themselves as always principled. Like to pretend always against fascism, while ignoring that some people did not see a problem, some people approved of it even, and some people would actually like to see something similar return now.

Seems nice when you can say that you can recognise evil, but would be surprised by even people who seem so sure cannot recognise evil.

Some say Stalin was an anti-Semite. I am not too sure of that. Still, Stalin hated religion, Christianity in particular.



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10 Dec 2019, 2:35 pm

Metal Rat wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
As you may know, the Americans were initially reluctant to oppose the Fascists, as they saw them as a bullwark against communism.


That is weird. Today, Fascism, Nazism particularly, is perceived as the Ultimate Evil!


Take a close look at what exactly is considered that evil to be - as I understand the American viewpoint, it's the totalitarianism, the "unfreedom", the anti-individualist ideology, and of course, the idea that one could rule the world, administratively, instead of indirectly, by being the hub for the world's financial flows, like wall street is today.

In Germany, what they consider to be the evil in Nazism is how mundane it was in its totalitarianism - if you were German, you had your career choices, you had your consumption choices, you grew up "knowing" you were a member of the best people in the world, - as long as you didn't oppose the politics and the racism, you were good. Later, you needed to pledge allegiance by joining the party, to advance in certain careers.
My grandparents grew up in this system. It was totally normal for them to think they are superior to other peoples, by default, and that they were on the right side of history. They had never heard any other story than that one.

Hannah Ahrendt wrote of the trial of Adolf Eichmann, that she was completely disturbed by how normal and boring this guy was, who had managed thr logistics of transporting people into death camps. He went to work in the morning, went home in the evening and loved his children.
The essay is called 'the banality of evil'.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Dec 2019, 2:46 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
America did send back Jewish refugees back to Germany, that is how much they did not care until it started to become too obvious.



They also locked up Japanese-Americans in internment camps and unapologetically nuked two Japanese cities.

As I've said before, Americans are a unique kind of evil. We also seem to be the karma houdini of the world. It must be why Americans live under the delusion of being the "good guys".


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Metal Rat
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10 Dec 2019, 4:23 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
America did send back Jewish refugees back to Germany, that is how much they did not care until it started to become too obvious.



They also locked up Japanese-Americans in internment camps and unapologetically nuked two Japanese cities.

As I've said before, Americans are a unique kind of evil. We also seem to be the karma houdini of the world. It must be why Americans live under the delusion of being the "good guys".


Most Americans feel no guilt whatsoever for what their military did, during The Second World War. They do not even feel bad about using atomic weapons against Japan. Interestingly, though, American stereotypes of the Japanese are eerily like German stereotypes of Jews.
:? Oddly, none seem to think about that, but me!



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10 Dec 2019, 4:39 pm

Metal Rat wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
America did send back Jewish refugees back to Germany, that is how much they did not care until it started to become too obvious.



They also locked up Japanese-Americans in internment camps and unapologetically nuked two Japanese cities.

As I've said before, Americans are a unique kind of evil. We also seem to be the karma houdini of the world. It must be why Americans live under the delusion of being the "good guys".


Most Americans feel no guilt whatsoever for what their military did, during The Second World War. They do not even feel bad about using atomic weapons against Japan. Interestingly, though, American stereotypes of the Japanese are eerily like German stereotypes of Jews.
:? Oddly, none seem to think about that, but me!


I think about it all the time and it sickens me. Also Americans stereotype all of their enemies (or former enemies). Japanese, Chinese, Germans, Russians, Muslims, Mexicans, American Southerners (yes I know, I'm a broken record :P).


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Dec 2019, 4:41 pm

What I often wonder is, when Americans were so hell bent on the concept that "The only good jap is a dead jap!", what exactly changed their minds about that after World World 2? :?


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10 Dec 2019, 6:15 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
What I often wonder is, when Americans were so hell bent on the concept that "The only good jap is a dead jap!", what exactly changed their minds about that after World World 2? :?

1. The enemy of my enemy(Soviet Union) is my friend
2. Money (Japanese Market for American companies)


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Dec 2019, 6:21 pm

Quote:
Money (Japanese Market for American companies)



Of course, makes sense to me because in America it's ALWAYS about pure black Capitalistic greed hidden behind the mask of rightousness.

"Land of opportunity" for the hardened opportunists indeed.


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10 Dec 2019, 6:37 pm


https://youtu.be/mheE1u1uNNE

Lyrics
If a picture paints a thousand words,
Then why can't I paint you?
The words will never show the you I've come to know.
If a face could launch a thousand ships,
Then where am I to go?
There's no one home but you,
You're all that's left me too.
And when my love for life is running dry,
You come and pour yourself on me.
If a man could be two places at one time,
I'd be with you.
Tomorrow and today, beside you all the way.
If the world should stop revolving spinning slowly down to die,
I'd spend the end with you.
And when the world was through,
Then one by one the stars would all go out,
Then you and I would simply fly away
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: David Gates
If lyrics © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC

Damn!
"If a man could be two places at one time,
I'd be with you."
Quantum Mechanics is stalking me now (too)! :twisted:



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13 Dec 2019, 4:21 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Quote:
Money (Japanese Market for American companies)



Of course, makes sense to me because in America it's ALWAYS about pure black Capitalistic greed...

Do I detect a note of envy here?