Repressed or Forced?

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So, when I started my journey of discovering that I am non-binary, I thought that at least I could be sure that I was "straight", that I was into girls. After all I can be pretty clear that in general I find women more attractive, even when I was younger I can be pretty sure that I did not have the same feelings for boys as I did for boys. I am pretty sure that if something was around looking at the male body I would look away because I shouldn't be interested.

But in looking at my gender I have been reassessing things. At first getting my to change how I might think of trans people, tell myself that regardless of the bits they are their identified gender, and lets just say that it has almost been too easy through viewing different media to enjoy the bits. I kind of always had more of a preference for more boyish looking women, but I have been thinking that I also might like (for a lack of a better word) girlish men. But I don't know if I am somehow forcing myself to feel this way, or have seriously repressed an entire segment of my sexuality.

To be clear, I know for pretty much certain that big masculine men is not my thing, which I thought for pretty certain should be the nail that I am not secretly bisexual, just masculinity itself in the way manly men act is not attractive. And everything else is just an aberration, like the fact I might look at a "package", or think to myself that a guy is kind of cute, but then I thought that these standards I am being a bit one sided that I don't apply the same standard towards women. For one I am perplexed by the kind of big boob worship that other media is telling me all the other guys have, and that there are plenty of women that I think that I have the same thoughts I would have towards more masculine men where I could admit they are good looking without leaving a strong impact.

I know when I was a kid that everything I saw with romance was heteronormative, so my thoughts back then might have been just thinking to copy what was in movies, and that by the time I perhaps could have started thinking for myself I was kind of strongly impacted from bullying where I was called gay, which I am pretty sure told me that gay was bad. But as I have been doing what I assume is deprograming myself, being more comfortable with LGBT stuff, I think that I have realized that I was kind of repressed. I recall times where I was hanging out with a male friend and it would be like I would get hit by an urge to kiss, and as I make myself more comfortable with homosexuality, it is almost like I realised that every time I felt uncomfortable with it, it was like I was afraid that I would like it.

But finally the question I made this topic around. How do I know that these feelings are like something I repressed, or I am just forcing myself to feel a certain way? Am I going to have to do something like go on a date with a guy to test how I feel? Is this just normal for "straight" people?

I'm not entirely sure how to go about figuring this out, as everyone figures out their sexuality differently, but I did deal with something kinda similar up until a year or so ago.

In my experience I've known I'm bisexual for years, but I would go through periods where I would intensely question whether I actually liked men or women. I think regarding men it was due to me being trans, because for awhile I felt like I had to like solely women for whatever reason, and then when I felt attraction to men I would worry that people would use that as an excuse to assert that I was just a woman. Then there were periods where I accepted that I was into men, but I would then question whether I was just forcing myself to like women before and the dilemma would start right over. It was kind of a cycle of questioning and repressing things for awhile.

For me, figuring both of those things out honestly just took a couple years of letting myself think about things and settle into my identity more. I couldn't just force it and instantly decide, I had to give myself time to come to terms with it. I also didn't purposely go out and date men and women to test the waters, I just kinda let myself do whatever felt right until I finally found the answer? I basically openly talked about my preferences with my friends, allowed myself to just feel whatever attraction I felt and date whoever without questioning it. Eventually once I was more comfortable with being trans and realized that liking men or women doesn't have to negate the other, I was able to accept that I do like both men and women, and that for me it's a pretty equal attraction.

You are probably right HeroOfHyrule (cool name by the way, as a fan of the Legend of Zelda series), I should really just rely on time to think through my preferences, I just don't want it to be like I am convincing myself of the idea.

Because as it stands I am a pretty introverted that I am always afraid of upsetting others I maybe avoid perving or really flirting, and I convinced myself as male and for family, only feel one way.

I think that it is through games and fictional characters that I have done more thinking. One particular reservation I can think of is when I played Fable 2 and 3 (maybe a bit old at this point). The second only quickly mentioned because I think a whole bunch of confusing feelings I had from accidentally taking a sex swapping potion, which I think was some sort of indication of confused feelings years before I realised that I was NB. And the third game, I don't remember why but for some reason I took note that all the male NPCs were kind of unattractive, which maybe I should take that I am not attracted, but question why did I even think that in the first place, it wasn't like I was consciously sizing up for male love interests in the game for the family mechanic. Granted the female NPCs were a bit difficult too.

I have been exploring my gender a bit through some games, so I wonder if I should find a way too with my sexuality, picking up an RPG and go through a male love interest, which I think that I would panic with because I was afraid of something inside. Granted I also don't think there are super good pickings. Kind of feels like a lot, to say that I am both Non-binary and bi, especially since I think that I used to have such a fear of being called gay that repressed me to my late 20s.

Honestly, as someone who's also pretty introverted I kinda used games to figure out my sexuality and gender, too. A thing that helped me figure out that I was in fact bi was I eventually noticed that as a child/younger teenager I still used to go after both female and male NPCs like I do now, so I was like, "Okay, maybe I am not forcing myself to like either of those things, since I didn't even have this dilemma then." I also had an issue with going after male NPCs for awhile from trying to repress liking men, but after I let myself do that more I realized it wasn't as bad as I was making it out to be? It was like I had forced myself to be uncomfortable about something so simple, especially since I didn't want other people to see me playing a game like that.

Also, regarding feeling like being trans/nb and bi is a lot, I can understand that since that was another reason why I questioned things for so long. I lowkey just didn't want to be both trans and gay. lol I personally don't really know where that came from since I didn't really get bullied about my sexuality ever, but all I knew for awhile was that I felt like I just wanted to be trans, and that I didn't like the idea of "complicating" things further for me and other people. I've had trans and gay friends who said they've felt the same way, so maybe having an issue with that is common? I'm not exactly sure.

In my experience, if you've devoted this much time to considering this or worrying about this, then chances are you aren't forcing yourself to feel a certain way. I feel like that's how it's been for me most steps of the way in exploring my identity. I didn't think I liked guys, and I didn't want to find out I liked guys. Even as I grew up a bit and started unlearning homophobia, there is still the unconscious reluctance to consider that I might be queer bc of the social and personal ramifications. Who would I share this information with? How would I act on it? What will ppl think? What else will I learn about myself if this ends up being true? If you think you might be repressing something, it is worth exploring. Best case: you can be truer to your feelings, worst case: you find out isn't part of you and you can move on.

In my experience it can be hard to explore relationships with men especially if you haven't done it before (and are autistic). I struggle just to form and maintain platonic relationships with men. But as has been said, there are ways of exploring this that are less socially-intensive. I am also a damn nerd and interactions with male npc's allowed me to consider and explore attraction to them with more freedom than I could in real life. One of the triggers for me figuring out I was bi/pan was Fenris from Dragon Age 2. Among others. I've recently been using games to try. Not presenting as a man. Since I have been speculating I'm some kind of trans, but am far too self-conscious (and lazy about fashion) to try it in real life. I've found I tend to prefer playing as a woman, but I think part of why that is is bc male player characters are often kind of hyper masculine, gravelly-voiced, etc. I remembered the only two male voice options for the player character in Dragon Age Inquisition were Overly-Flightly Posh British voice and Gravelly Almost Angry Sounding voice

Incidentally, I think this is why so many queer, autistic nerds I know love Link so much lol. I was attracted to him long before I realized it. He's easy to project onto and he's so androgynously pretty. I've met at least one afab trans person who *strongly* identified with Link as they were exploring their identity. Link has been a window to a lot of queerness for a lot of people it seems.

Hi

I’m Nicki.
When I was reading up about female aspies a few years ago, it said lots of female aspies feel misgendered (not to the point of dysphoria). When I was growing up I didn’t understand why I was not allowed to pee standing up and why I was not allowed to indulge in dry humping as I got older. I have always felt more male than female.

I’m non-binary and also demisexual. As an aspie I’m not interested in sex or rather the courtship nonsense that surrounds it. Bipolar me is different but this isn’t the right place.

And I’m pansexual which I guess is in the + part of LGBTQI+ . I feel more part of LGBTQ than hetero, and have a weakness for MTF trans . You will hear me banging my drum for trans rights right here from my armchair on the south coast.

Nicki

I did initially go for the overly-flirty accent in being surprisingly happy with the kind of masculine Cassandra, as much as I would also like to feel it worthy to go back through as a more butch Qanari woman with Sera. Also, pretty sure I recognised some part of me thought that Dorian was cute, which may be a part of what I felt a little uncomfortable.

Speaking of Link, there was a particular official art from the game Tri Force Heroes that had just some sort of big impact on me from the moment I saw it; Link wearing Zelda's dress while looking incredibly proud.


I think that I first thought it was funny, but was more than that. Zelda herself also connected to me when she appeared more masculine, such as Sheik or Tetra. A particular gossip stone in OoT saying that Zelda was secretly a tomboy also always kind of stuck with me.

You could try imagining yourself on a date with a guy, proceeding to being intimate. What's your gut reaction? I know I'm very much straight because my gut reaction to that exercise is "Yuck! Gross! I wanna get out of here!" I imagine a strongly gay/lesbian person would have the same reaction to the idea of engaging in heterosexual sex. But I think a lot of people don't fall neatly at either end of the continuum.

Wait, your gut reaction to the exercise of imagining yourself on a date with a guy is that it is gross, and that is how you know you are straight? *looks at tag of female*

JK, I know what you actually mean. And that is a part of what I have thought is tricky. I was so sure that I thought that the idea was gross, that I could see all the movies make fun of it, or even not and I would feel generally uncomfortable. But I kind of think that I was afraid. Before I knew it I was wondering why I was so obsessed with the Spring Break Anthem music video by The Lonely Island.



Like I know that there is the whole irony element of the song that is meant to play the toxicity of spring break culture against something wholesome like two men kissing each other, but I am genuinely confused if I like it out of a sort of ironic I want to be a good ally, or there are like layers. And then I saw the Equal Rights song the other day... and gives me some thoughts. The feeling of someone saying they are for that sort of thing while probably in denial about themselves.



You would think that it would be easy, that I was pretty sure about my own sexuality, and then thinking that I am protesting a bit too much to myself. I think that I have been coming along to the idea that kissing a dude could be okay, maybe I would not dislike it. This is weird, because I was so sure, I don't think that I had urges to look up dudes, maybe just a couple times I was alone with a guy for a bit, and I would be suddenly hit with like this urge to kiss him, even if I generally had no real thoughts that he was good looking.

Based on how I was bullied, it does make me wonder if people saw things about me that I was not aware.

Can I ask what just quoting the post means?
I hope that is not a weird question.

It should be remembered that many tomboys actually dig guys.

I find that many people have a very narrow view of what constitutes one’s “gender.”

I am 100% “a man,” am sexually attracted to feminine women, and am not attracted sexually to people who outwardly appear “non-binary.”

But I do have some “feminine” interests. Just because I like feminine scents on myself one day doesn’t make me “gender fluid.”

Men are not 100% macho, and women aren’t all “girly girls.” Many feminine women like carpentry and sports.

Note that I have no problem with the various genders. But I do find that many people have a rather narrow view of what constitutes a “man” and a “woman.”

Believe me that I am not the type to have a narrow mind of what makes a man or a woman, in fact I have always been generally fond of people or characters that are not just "binary", I don't essentially mean non binary characters.

But I do think that I became excited when the character BMO from Adventure Time was kind of neutral with their gender, but also fluid with it where an episodes had them pretending to play a person that was masculine like a male, or feminine like a female. Such character that were not jokes have been a relatively recent thing in popular culture.

What exactly is girlish man or boyish woman,aren't young people today a little narrow minded as what constitutes gender.Young people today are so into strict gender definitions.In older times it is true there was not as much acceptence of people clearly outside the gender norm but people were more laxxed about what was a gender norm.

There were always tom boys it was no big deal and they were viewed as women like any other woman.There were always sensitive men,they were artists,writers,teachers,musicians,ministers,preists,rabi's psychologists ect.....
And they were accepted as men and it was no big deal.

I'm not saying there are not legit non-binary people,in my home state you can have non-binary on your drivers license.

However young people today are to often have these over complex nuanced gender identities because young people are sooooo rigid on gender.People didn't used to be so rigid on gender,people with a nuanced androgyny in there personality were just considered part of the human experience and one didn't have to be perfectly there gender to be respected as there gender.

I do understand often in those days people well outside of gender norm were more persecuted.But I do think young people are to hyper literal on gender,there really aren't any people that don't have one personality trait that's androgynous.It's what made people unique in the old days,today you would have to be gender fluid to you conform perfectly because perfect conformaty is mandatory.

I'm not fond of viewing culture - including sexuality - as some external repressive force. My culture is part of me, it gives me concepts and terms to deal with reality. When I expand my culture - like, when I learn concepts from different cultures - I just get more words to describe my reality, some maybe better suited for particular situations that happen to me.

When it comes to homo-, hetero- or bisexuality, there is something called Kinsey scale, you can find where you fit on it. I got something between 1 and 2, I guess you would score similarily - but I'm strictly heteroromantic and demisexual (that was the useful word to learn!), so I never seriously considered making love to another woman.

You don't have to fit neatly within all those terms. I'm okay with being quite "androgynous" but I definitely don't identify as "gender-fluid". For some reasons, one of these terms does feel like me and the other doesn't. English language is so full of subtle shades of meaning, you can choose whatever feels like you.

Those are some good questions, and fantastic if you are curious. How can you have something like a masculine woman (tomboy, butch) but also have something like a trans man or a an AFAB (assigned female at birth) Non-binary person, and them both be separate, even have a tomboy or butch woman be more masculine than a trans man or enby?

The best answer you are going to get is to ask them. A trans person is just going to tell you that they know they are a man, a tomboy will say they still feel like a woman. Me as an AMAB Enby, I am still running the numbers, something about being between or both has just always struck a cord with me, and took me a long time to find out about things like most people don't think that way, but there are people that do. I connect with androgyny. I liked learning that my name can apparently be both a male and female name. I don't think I in general get much dysphoria, but I hate being called something like "fella", a word that has this specific bloke manly image to it and just feels wrong. More than that, I actually kind of feel good, affirmed, with androgyny, the same way men feel when told they are manly.

In terms of people boxing themselves into labels in limiting themselves. Perhaps some people do that, but for me it has been actually trying to understand myself. I like the sound of Enby (NB), that feels like a good broad start like someone can be a boy or a girl. Beyond that I am still trying to understand, find a title to describe more exactly how I relate to masculinity and femineity as an enby. A lot of self reflection has me describe the whole person that I am as a bunch of people sitting around a table, they might each represent a personality trait, an emotion or different ideas of who I am, the voices in your head that allow one to debate with yourself, consider different points of view and just sort complex thoughts. And to me, it is kind of like these different people may be different genders, some male and some female, although it maybe changes which ones are what and how many, so far I think this is what people call genderfluid if not bigender. It can give me a way to explain, that maybe I usually look like a man, but sometimes I might like to look pretty, but I am always non-binary.

I don't care too much if people know more than non-binary, it would mostly be for myself, like saying that I am on the autism spectrum while also knowing more exactly the type of autism traits that I have. Even if I don't really know yet, I don't think that I would box myself into match what everyone else thinks a non-binary bi/gender/fluid, I will just find another name so I could find others who also think similar and say I relate with that person.

It is kind of how I might like also a way to explain my sexuality, whether I maybe just can appreciate a boy that could be seen as attractive, or I might like to be with that. And what that was has felt like it has changed quite a bit as I reassessed things. Like it was not long ago I was saying that male me is totally straight, female me might like both ways. But it was like a separated out the two sides of masculine and feminine, brought them back and realised that might not be entirely accurate because I was dealing with some internalised homophobia. But am I maybe just infatuated with parts of a man, an idea of, but give me a more masculine dude like a lot of people are and I might not feel anything, but maybe I already have that with a lot of types of women and I never questioned that, because why would I.