Should you choose instruments based on sound or theme?

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ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 2:43 am

When it comes to scoring my filmmaking projects, I usually pick instruments based on how much I like the sound but perhaps theme and feel is more important than sound.

For example one project I want to evoke a romance feeling in one section. One instrument that is good for that type of feeling is the tenor saxophone. But I never really liked the sound of it especially. So I thought maybe I would use the duduk instead because it has a better sound. But, does the duduk, evoke romance though as much as the tenor saxophone?

Or another section I wanted to make it more like a Western... One instrument that evokes a western feeling is the harmonica, especially how it's played in Once Upon A Time in the West. However, the harmonica is not the best sounding instrument for me and one that sounds better is the Xiao, in my opinion.

But what is more important? Sound, or theme and tone that you are going for?



auntblabby
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10 Aug 2020, 3:22 am

ideally, you need both sound quality which helps to set the tone, as well as tone/feel. what do you think of the bass harmonica?



naturalplastic
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10 Aug 2020, 4:07 am

What the heck is a "duduk"? And WTF is a "Xiao"?

If you're an avant garde progressive rock star doing your own thing you can go with what you like.

But if you're scoring for a film you cant be so self-indulgent, and you have go with what communicates to the public, and communicates fast. So if it's between one or the other I would go with what works, and not with what you instrument you like.



auntblabby
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10 Aug 2020, 4:10 am

the OP might more affordably experiment with either/or a moog or a mellotron.



ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 9:00 am

naturalplastic wrote:
What the heck is a "duduk"? And WTF is a "Xiao"?

If you're an avant garde progressive rock star doing your own thing you can go with what you like.

But if you're scoring for a film you cant be so self-indulgent, and you have go with what communicates to the public, and communicates fast. So if it's between one or the other I would go with what works, and not with what you instrument you like.


Oh well, when it comes to scores I have heard before, I will pick out instruments I like, and two of the ones I like just so happen to be a duduk and a xiao.

But when you say I should do what works, how does one know what will work and what will not? If I think it sounds good, it sounds like safe bet, but how do you know if it is?



ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 9:02 am

And yes I am planning on using the moog for some parts of the score. Not sure about a mellatron but I will check it out, thanks!

auntblabby wrote:
ideally, you need both sound quality which helps to set the tone, as well as tone/feel. what do you think of the bass harmonica?


The bass harmonica is okay. I was thinking this type of harmonica, which is lower than usual, but not a bass one I don't think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6BQKFs3-VM

Either that, or the xiao, which is heard here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbJE_L80QRI

I prefer the sound of the xiao more, but maybe a harmonica is better for the audience? How does one know?



auntblabby
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10 Aug 2020, 5:35 pm

you also have to remember the common movie-going culture, the expectations of generations of filmgoers to hear a certain sound a certain way that has become the cultural musical currency, so to speak.



ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 6:04 pm

Oh okay for sure. If audiences were to here the duduk or the xiao for example, what would they think, as oppose to to the saxophone and harmonica?



auntblabby
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10 Aug 2020, 6:56 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay for sure. If audiences were to here the duduk or the xiao for example, what would they think, as oppose to to the saxophone and harmonica?

that the movie scene in question would have, at least subconsciously, a more middle eastern feel or asian feel.



naturalplastic
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10 Aug 2020, 7:21 pm

ironpony wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
What the heck is a "duduk"? And WTF is a "Xiao"?

If you're an avant garde progressive rock star doing your own thing you can go with what you like.

But if you're scoring for a film you cant be so self-indulgent, and you have go with what communicates to the public, and communicates fast. So if it's between one or the other I would go with what works, and not with what you instrument you like.


Oh well, when it comes to scores I have heard before, I will pick out instruments I like, and two of the ones I like just so happen to be a duduk and a xiao.

But when you say I should do what works, how does one know what will work and what will not? If I think it sounds good, it sounds like safe bet, but how do you know if it is?


Your loyalty should be to the story, not to your own taste. So I would play it safe and use the language of American movies -and go with the cliche things that go with what you're trying to communicate during the moments of the movie.

And thanks for not answering my question. Just now googled them. A duduk is a traditional wooden flute from Armenia (or it could be the unrelated flute they play in northeast Bulgaria that coincidentally has the same name), and a xiao is a traditional bamboo flute in China.

Anyway... do what you want. But if you're doing a cowboy movie set in the old west I dont think that scoring it with exotic instruments from parts of Asia makes much sense. The music just wouldnt convey what you're trying to convey.

Movies have been scored with exotic instruments successfully but they usually are movies with strange storylines in which the strange exotic instruments fit well. Indian sitar ( a traditional plucked string instrument unlike anything in the west) music was in vogue in the psychedelic late Sixties, and the movie "Charly" (kind of a semi sci fi drama) was scored entirely with Indian sitar music played by Ravi Shankar. And it worked well. At about the same time George Harrison of the Beatles scored the now largely forgotten movie called "the Wonderwall". Though set in England the Beatle used a whole crew of Asian Indians playing various traditional Indian instruments (plucked string instruments like sarods, and sitars, and tablas for the percussion) for most of the soundtrack. Again the wierd music kinda went with the movie's weird story. But even this movie had segments that had to be scored with western instruments playing very conventional and indeed cliche tunes. There is a dude ranch scene with folks on horseback, and Harrison had a cliche clip cloppy slow cowboy tune playing for that scene- with no Asian Indian instruments anywhere in sight.



ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 7:57 pm

Oh okay, well I wanted to evoke a western feeling in modern times, it's just when it comes to music, western music tends to have a bit of a backwoods type of sound to it, especially if it's the harmonica, and I wasn't sure if backwoods sounding was the way to go, even though I am trying to evoke a Western feel in other areas of the storytelling.

As for using an Asian and middle Eastern instrument, it's not my intention to make the audience think of those places geographically, I was wondering if I should just use the sounds I know, but maybe not, if geography is more important?



auntblabby
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10 Aug 2020, 8:04 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, well I wanted to evoke a western feeling in mordern times, it's just when it comes to music, western music tends to have a bit of a backwoods type of sound to it, especially if it's the harmonica, and I wasn't sure if backwoods sounding was the way to go, even though I am trying to evoke a Western feel in other areas of the storytelling.

As for using an Asian and middle Eastern instrument, it's not my intention to make the audience think of those places geographically, I was wondering if I should just use the sounds I know, but maybe not, if geography is more important?

i guess there is no way of knowing for sure how it will go down until you do it, i'd try a synth to synthesize the sounds of those instruments first. cheaper than hiring a musician.



ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 9:16 pm

Oh okay, I was thinking of using pre-recorded samples, rather than a synth, because wouldn't pre-recorded samples, sound more real?



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10 Aug 2020, 9:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, I was thinking of using pre-recorded samples, rather than a synth, because wouldn't pre-recorded samples, sound more real?

yes, that would work better for your needs, but there are synths now that have built-in sampled sound fonts such as those made by roland.



ironpony
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10 Aug 2020, 9:39 pm

Oh okay, but I thought that a synth will always sound synthesized still, compared to pre-recorded sounds, unless I am wrong?



auntblabby
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10 Aug 2020, 9:55 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but I thought that a synth will always sound synthesized still, compared to pre-recorded sounds, unless I am wrong?

if they use multi-sampled sound fonts, they should sound similar to a mellotron.