Ignore modern dating advice?

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Pricelessppp1
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11 Feb 2021, 6:10 pm

Should I ignore modern dating advice? For instance this Alpha/Beta “nice” guy or Friends Zone stuff people insist that’s real. I just don’t know wether or not to trust dating advice nowadays.



cberg
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11 Feb 2021, 6:11 pm

None of these things are real.

I don't even really think any of that is advice.


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Muse933277
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11 Feb 2021, 6:34 pm

A lot of dating advice is contradictory.

On one hand, you've got people who tell you to be friends with a girl first. And on the other side of the spectrum, you've got people who will tell you that you should state your interest in a girl quickly and waiting too long to ask her out means you're likely getting friendzoned.

Some people will tell you to be proactive in your pursuit of your love. Other people will tell you not look for love and that "you'll find someone when you're not looking". Both of these are very contradictory of one another.


So what is it? Which advice is right and wrong? Well this is what I think...


The reason why a lot of dating advice is contradictory is because people tend to give advice based on what has worked for them, and not necessarily for other people. If a 21 year old hot sorority girl tells you "you'll find someone when you're not looking", the reason why she's giving you this advice is because it worked for her.


Another reason why dating advice is contradictory is because there are multiple ways to be successful in dating and find a girlfriend, not just one way. The truth is that you can be friends with a girl first, ask a girl out rather quickly, meet a girl in a bar, meet a girl at work, meet a girl online, etc... You can find a girl where looks don't matter at all, and you can find a girl where looks matter a lot. You can find a girl by being proactive and you can find a girl when you're not looking.

The point is that there isn't only one way to find a girlfriend, there are multiple ways. Find which style works best for you.



kraftiekortie
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11 Feb 2021, 6:51 pm

I don't believe in that Alpha Beta Gamma Delta BS!

It's garbage. Ignore that crap.



CollegeGirlAnon
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11 Feb 2021, 7:19 pm

I find all of that s**t insane.


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MidnightRose
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12 Feb 2021, 1:07 am

Well the whole "alpha/beta" dichotomy is based on ideas of wolf behavior that were later debunked by the researcher who coined the terms. Human behavior and social relationships are way too complicated for someone to universally be "alpha" or "beta." Just like there are all sorts of men, there are all sorts of women and they aren't all attracted to the conventional "alpha male." As for "the friendzone," well, I believed in it growing up but it was nonsense. I never flirted or asked a girl out, so obviously girls viewed me as a friend and didn't view me romantically. It wasn't malevolent women forcing me into the friendzone. And there's nothing wrong with just being friends anyway, because you gain a friend.

I'm no expert, I mean, I've never had a romantic relationship myself, but the manosphere types are pretty clearly just misogynists.



idntonkw
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12 Feb 2021, 1:21 am

Pricelessppp1 wrote:
Should I ignore modern dating advice? For instance this Alpha/Beta “nice” guy or Friends Zone stuff people insist that’s real. I just don’t know wether or not to trust dating advice nowadays.


For an autistic guy, it makes very short term difference about the alpha/beta and nice guy advice.



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12 Feb 2021, 1:22 am

One piece of advice I've heard a lot is "just be yourself". This seems like advice that would work well for most NTs, as being themselves typically involves going out to social events and mingling. But for me, "being myself" usually means sitting at home reading. Going out to social events is usually an uncomfortable chore that I have to force myself to do, and when I do I'm always uncomfortable.

I also hear a lot of advice, usually from men, that seems to imply that women lack agency and simply respond favorably to any man who knows the right buttons to push. I find it rather distasteful.

Muse933277 wrote:

The truth is that you can be friends with a girl first, ask a girl out rather quickly, meet a girl in a bar, meet a girl at work, meet a girl online, etc... You can find a girl where looks don't matter at all, and you can find a girl where looks matter a lot. You can find a girl by being proactive and you can find a girl when you're not looking.

The point is that there isn't only one way to find a girlfriend, there are multiple ways. Find which style works best for you.


I've tried all of those strategies and none of them ever worked.

Also, I'm don't know what what "where looks don't matter at all" means. There was a lady I enjoyed talking to online, but once we met in person I realized I felt no attraction to her at all. I'm sure this works in the other direction as well. Some level of physical attraction, i.e. looks, will always matter.



The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Feb 2021, 2:11 am

MidnightRose wrote:
Well the whole "alpha/beta" dichotomy is based on ideas of wolf behavior that were later debunked by the researcher who coined the terms. Human behavior and social relationships are way too complicated for someone to universally be "alpha" or "beta." Just like there are all sorts of men, there are all sorts of women and they aren't all attracted to the conventional "alpha male." As for "the friendzone," well, I believed in it growing up but it was nonsense. I never flirted or asked a girl out, so obviously girls viewed me as a friend and didn't view me romantically. It wasn't malevolent women forcing me into the friendzone. And there's nothing wrong with just being friends anyway, because you gain a friend.

I'm no expert, I mean, I've never had a romantic relationship myself, but the manosphere types are pretty clearly just misogynists.


So you want to sound scientific? Be scientifically accurate then:

Humans are primates, not canines; and the cousin ape species like Common chimps and Gorillas do have alpha/beta. Even the bonobo have them but they are way more peaceful and matriarchal. We humans are more similar to all these apes than to... wolves.
Wolves are actually way less sexually dimorphic and way more egalitarian than most primates.

We current humans are descendants from WAY fewer men than women, there’s way less diversity of Y chromosome than X.

Take a look at this:
https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-r ... ve-success

Across most modern primitive tribes and across all humankind history, polygyny was and still is the most common form of polygamy.

All this leads to the conclusion that there was somehow a alpha/beta mechanism going on in humans, it doesn’t matter whether it is/was intentional or not.

Christianity and its influence was probably the greatest impact that lessened polygyny:
Ancient Hebrews did practice polygyny but it is no more legal in most Jewish circles now, even many Muslim countries which were Christians/Jewish (like Egypt, Syria, Turkey ... etc) very rarely practice polygyny because it is socially frowned upon there. India’s Hinduism had polygyny but outlawed in the 50s. In virtually all ancient Asian dynasties, marriage was a privilege for male elites only, actually it was the case in a lot of ancient cultures.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 12 Feb 2021, 2:32 am, edited 6 times in total.

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12 Feb 2021, 2:13 am

MidnightRose wrote:
Well the whole "alpha/beta" dichotomy is based on ideas of wolf behavior that were later debunked by the researcher who coined the terms. Human behavior and social relationships are way too complicated for someone to universally be "alpha" or "beta." Just like there are all sorts of men, there are all sorts of women and they aren't all attracted to the conventional "alpha male."
I actually learned about the alpha/beta wolf thing from the show Adam Ruins Everything :arrow:


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12 Feb 2021, 2:22 am

Muse933277 wrote:
A lot of dating advice is contradictory.

On one hand, you've got people who tell you to be friends with a girl first. And on the other side of the spectrum, you've got people who will tell you that you should state your interest in a girl quickly and waiting too long to ask her out means you're likely getting friendzoned.

Some people will tell you to be proactive in your pursuit of your love. Other people will tell you not look for love and that "you'll find someone when you're not looking". Both of these are very contradictory of one another.


So what is it? Which advice is right and wrong? Well this is what I think...


The reason why a lot of dating advice is contradictory is because people tend to give advice based on what has worked for them, and not necessarily for other people. If a 21 year old hot sorority girl tells you "you'll find someone when you're not looking", the reason why she's giving you this advice is because it worked for her.


Another reason why dating advice is contradictory is because there are multiple ways to be successful in dating and find a girlfriend, not just one way. The truth is that you can be friends with a girl first, ask a girl out rather quickly, meet a girl in a bar, meet a girl at work, meet a girl online, etc... You can find a girl where looks don't matter at all, and you can find a girl where looks matter a lot. You can find a girl by being proactive and you can find a girl when you're not looking.

The point is that there isn't only one way to find a girlfriend, there are multiple ways. Find which style works best for you.
Your absolutely rite about this. I've been told LOTS of conflicting things & some seemingly contradictory things have worked for me like Not seeking & being friends 1st & also Seeking & jumping into a relationship. I was online friends with my 1st girlfriend before she told me she liked me & then I realized I liked her too. But I met my 2nd & current girlfriend by posting aLOT about being lonely & other relationship stuff online & we jumped into a relationship.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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12 Feb 2021, 2:23 am



Muse933277
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12 Feb 2021, 12:07 pm

dorkseid wrote:

Also, I'm don't know what what "where looks don't matter at all" means. There was a lady I enjoyed talking to online, but once we met in person I realized I felt no attraction to her at all. I'm sure this works in the other direction as well. Some level of physical attraction, i.e. looks, will always matter.



I think for a lot of people, looks do matter. Your physical appearance affects how other people perceive you, especially initially. Your level of attractiveness also has a big factor on whether or not someone perceives you as a potential romantic partner. This should be fairly obvious. Do you have to be good looking to find a partner? No. But being good looking will make it easier simply because you get more romantic opportunities and a higher percentage of people find you attractive.


The less physically attractive you are, the more you have to compensate for it. If you're very unattractive, you better be bringing something else to the table, whether that's high intelligence, a good paying job, very strong social skills, etc...A poor and overweight guy with crap social skills and still lives with mom and dad is going to struggle tremendously. Think about Skippy, the 40 year old virgin. (Go on Youtube and look him up) There's plenty of guys who are ugly like Skippy who do fine with women; they're married and have kids, but that's because they bring something else to the table. Skippy doesn't...



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13 Feb 2021, 1:18 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

So you want to sound scientific? Be scientifically accurate then:

Humans are primates, not canines; and the cousin ape species like Common chimps and Gorillas...



Does any of this mean that, say, Roosh V has a dating strategy rooted in accurate (to our current understanding) models of human behavior? When manosphere vloggers talk about alphas and betas they are thinking of wolves, they are not biologists, they are using a pop science term. Do you really think pick up artists who guarantee that you can get any woman "with this one simple trick" or by taking one of their expensive classes isn't just creating a horribly reductive model of human relationships for profit and influence? Even the beta chimps still had sex. The experts just don't seem to use the terms "alpha" and "beta" to describe humans. As dorkseid said, a lot of this stuff reads like a button pushing game where you present alpha with a handful of set behaviors and then the woman, bound by her instincts, can't help but fall for you. People don't talk about male sexuality that way.



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13 Feb 2021, 1:26 am

MidnightRose wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

So you want to sound scientific? Be scientifically accurate then:

Humans are primates, not canines; and the cousin ape species like Common chimps and Gorillas...



Does any of this mean that, say, Roosh V has a dating strategy rooted in accurate (to our current understanding) models of human behavior? When manosphere vloggers talk about alphas and betas they are thinking of wolves, they are not biologists, they are using a pop science term. Do you really think pick up artists who guarantee that you can get any woman "with this one simple trick" or by taking one of their expensive classes isn't just creating a horribly reductive model of human relationships for profit and influence? Even the beta chimps still had sex. The experts just don't seem to use the terms "alpha" and "beta" to describe humans. As dorkseid said, a lot of this stuff reads like a button pushing game where you present alpha with a handful of set behaviors and then the woman, bound by her instincts, can't help but fall for you. People don't talk about male sexuality that way.



No, their advise is rubbish.

I was more nitpicking the your wolf part which is irrelevant to humans really.

The “alpha/beta” is not debunked for primares, it is only debunked for wolves.



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13 Feb 2021, 1:59 am

cberg wrote:
None of these things are real.

I don't even really think any of that is advice.


What makes you say they're not real?

I agree that it's not really advice.


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