Tony Attwood is a moron!

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I recently watched this lecture video of Professor Tony Attwood about autism:



There are a lot of problems here.

At around 17:41, he says that those with AS do get relationships. His reasoning is because ASD is genetic, it would have died out if nobody with AS could ever attract a mate. But he is failing to notice one simple fact: it is only male aspies who rarely succeed at attracting romantic partners, while female aspies typically don't have that particular problem. It is a simple fact that in our society women do not face the same social expectations of being the pursuers and making all the first moves. Men will still approach quiet, shy, or awkward women. Now, I do want to clarify that I am not in any way denying that female aspies face many difficult challenges; but the ability to attract a partner is not typically one of those. I would imagine that it is extremely difficult for female aspies to detect red flags in potential suiters and easily end up in highly abusive situation, so by no means am I implying that it is all butterflies and roses. But regardless of how toxic and damaging these relationships may be, they do nonetheless produce children. This explains how ASD persists in the population from generation to generation. Male aspies still, with few exceptions, are not able to attract or form relationships with women.

At 18:21, Attwood claims that once male aspies reach their mid 20's women will fall in love with us. This is nothing short of an outright lie. I passed 25 more than a decade ago, then 30 and 35, and now I'm less than a year away from 40; and I have yet to meet any women that wanted any kind of romantic or sexual relationship with me. And I know from my encounters with other male aspies online and IRL that I am not alone. While there are some male aspies who have found romantic success (exceptions to any rule can found if you look hard enough), the vast majority of male aspies remain single even into their 50's or 60's. The rise of incel and Forever Alone communities is a testimony to this reality. He mentions that women in the caring professions in particular are likely to fall in love with aspie men. Another lie! I've been working in special education for years, and prior to that I worked within the nursing profession. And not once did any of the women I met within either profession express any romantic or sexual interest in me.

At 30:20, Attwood again brings up that autism is genetic. He talks about how when treating a child with AS, he often expects that the parents are a father in STEM and a mother in the caring professions. But why doesn't he ever expect to see a relatively average father and a socially awkward mother? Does he not understand that women can be aspies too? He also is making the assumption that all aspies are geniuses with lucrative STEM careers, when the reality is those aspies only make up a small portion of the overall AS population. Just because videogames and computer programs are often created by aspies doesn't mean that all aspies are proficient or even interested in such jobs. He thinks all aspies can just get jobs at universities, getting paid well to happily study our special interests for the rest of our lives. Not every one of us holds a special interest in areas of math, science, or technology. How do aspies like me, obsessed with comics and action figure, manage to build careers out of our special interests? Statistics show that people with AS have one of the highest unemployment rates of any minority/disability demographic. These are all facts we should expect a self-professed "expert" on autism and Asperger's to be aware of.

As it says in the title: moron!

Last edited by Cornflake on 10 Aug 2021, 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.: Removed sweary title

Not all men with ASD struggle to the same extent as others in this regard.

In more traditionalist societies having undiagnosed ASD might be less of an issue, evidenced by how older generations in the west almost certainly included undiagnosed men with ASD who got married and had kids.

But even today there are men who succeed romantically in spite of having ASD. Even if those relationships don't last forever, they last long enough for them to have been sexual and sometimes produce offspring.

It isn't only men with ASD who struggle, it's only a portion of men with ASD struggle to the point of never having success.

I think there's over-simplifications both from him and within your criticisms even if they're at least partially true.

f*****g hell, talk about projection.

He's talking in general, broad terms. So average odds, median results, that kinda thing.

Within averages there are always exceptions. They don't, in themselves, disprove the overall trend.

Well done, you're exceptional. And he's not a moron.

Just someone you're angry with because he's reminded you how much your life sucks.

Maybe do something about that?

My dad, grandfather, brother all got married. My other grandfather may have been autistic too. People are attracted to hard workers who excel in special interests, who are devoted to their family instead of going out partying / playing sports / drinking etc.

I just wish society was better structured these days for people to meet in authentic ways (church, community events).

In the past, society was structured differently. Families and communities were more actively involved in bringing people together. This is why it was common for aspie men to marry and have children in past generations.

Given that gays and lesbians and even heterosexuals who fell in love with people of a different race were all denied their love and forced into a marriage with someone society deemed acceptable, would it be surprising to find women forced to marry aspie men didn't actually love?

These days, aspies men can only find romantic success if they have lucrative STEM careers and financial success. Of course women would find aspies like Elon Musk, Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs attractive because they're successful and wealthy. Men with AS have to overcompensate elsewhere for women to find us attractive.

Church events are not useful for atheists like myself, obviously. I suppose that if I was born 50 years earlier, I would've been compelled to play along and attend church.

Last edited by dorkseid on 08 Aug 2021, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

More women on the spectrum seem to be in relationships than men on the spectrum. But I think making friends with our peers is harder for females on the spectrum than it is for males on the spectrum. Women are hard to please, whether you're a neurodiverse male looking for a girlfriend, or a neurodiverse female looking for friends. I seem to make friends with men easier than other women, even though I'm more emotional than logical and I enjoy things other women enjoy like fashion and shopping and modern pop music.

I agree. Families also had many children, meaning there was a likelihood of meeting someone who was a friend of the family, or a family that your parents would know and trust.

I know a lot of people don't go to church now. I'm just saying it was an easy way to meet people, and likewise with community gatherings, helping other families build their homes, or having dances and potluck dinners in community halls. It's getting harder and harder to meet people now because of technology, and the fact many people stay or even work at home.

I wonder also if this issue plays out differently for men who feel comfortable engaging with women vs. ones who don't.

I'm rarely intimidated by interactions with women, I find most women easy to approach. I don't always interact well with men. Since I'm attracted to women this works well for me, but I can see other guys not being able to engage because maybe they didn't have enough friends who were girls so they're less prepared for those interactions.

Actually, it has always been easy for me to engage with women socially, as long as I didn't pursue them romantically. Women usually like me as a friend. But any time I try to express any romantic interest I always get shut down immediately.

Nonsense. I have neither of these things, but I have had marriage, numerous girlfriends and 2 children. I don't "overcompensate"; I'm just myself. And I'm far from the only one.

He isn't though, and this is all the more evident when viewing other, less popular videos wherein he discusses at length the very things you've accused him of overlooking or being ignorant of. When discussing autism as a whole, it's nearly impossible to do so while avoiding the use of general terms, otherwise the discussion would go on for hours upon hours. A speaker cannot be expected to cover all of the nuances attributed to what experts currently understand about a topic, much less one as complex as autism and the human brain.

Atwood has said again and again, "When you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism." That is the disclaimer before any discussion can be had. The video linked is among the most popular of its kind and it needed to be in that format for the average viewer. Atwood has acknowledged his own regret and personal shortcomings in the field of psychology after not recognizing spectrum traits early on in his own son, who would later be diagnosed.



But he has dedicated much of his life towards bettering our own through research and relaying that to everyone else. Criticism is all well and good, but how we criticize those who offer their support is equally important. I haven't rewatched the particular video you included for some time, but it seems reasonable to assume that Atwood was emphasizing the positives of autism, the best case scenarios. He also has discussed the spectrum as it pertains to women and is currently co-authoring a book with Maja Toudal.

It's also worth pointing out that now more than ever it is possible to at least have supplemental income from those special interests you mentioned, among others. Start a YouTube channel. Create a podcast. Whatever you are passionate about, that passion is likely contagious if put in the right format and made accessible to others you wouldn't ordinarily reach without the internet. If nothing else, there are more opportunities to connect with others who share those same niche interests.

Tl;dr...
Watch his other videos, particularly the ones with only a few thousand views.

Last edited by ct507 on 08 Aug 2021, 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just because he says 3 things that you disagree with doesn't necessarily mean he's a moron. I doubt anybody in the whole world is completely above talking rubbish from time to time.

Maybe the OP hasn't has as much luck with the opposite sex as they would like, but Attwood's argument is logical, autism obviously doesn't stop a person breeding. Autistic males tend to find partner later in life.

Bullsh!t! I'm approaching 40 I still have not had any success with dating or even casual sex. And it has only gotten more difficult with age.

I don't think he's a moron. Women are very sensitive (and extremely practical) about who'll be their children's dad. They want someone stable and hardworking. I've rarely met a successful man who does not have a partner. Girls might date all sorts of crazy guys, but when it comes to marriage most still prefer a good provider. Men are equally superficial as they judge women by their looks. There I have just generalized everyone. Call me moron if you want.

To find true love people have to get past looks or wallets. How does that happen? They've got to get to know each other well. Some activities that introduce prolonged interactions make them see past the surface and get more comfortable with each other. If possible, participate in various constructive activities to make more friends, and increase your odds. I mean activities like sports, fitness, in-person classes, volunteering in the community, arts and craft...etc. You can even go to public meetings. Lots of people didn't know they can go to city council meetings.

I'm afraid that simple dating and meet-ups still don't replace the slowly built-up relationships that human used to do.

Then how do you explain all the dead-beat fathers, drug addicts, gangbangers, etc who all have wives and children. I can't think of any such man I've met wo doesn't have a partner.

I've known many women over the years, and have gotten to be friends and spent time getting to know many. Some for multiple years. And yet none of them have ever expressed any romantic interest in me at any point.