The Danger of Veganism

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The Danger of Veganism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7sHlB4Yxb8

Is ditching meat a “game-changer” for your health?
https://peterattiamd.com/191027/

Is red meat killing us?
https://peterattiamd.com/is-red-meat-killing-us/

What the Health Documentary: My Commentary part 1 Of 2
https://www.paulcheksblog.com/what-the- ... rt-1-of-2/

Commentary on "What The Health" documentary - Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjIvoSB1nSg

Commentary on What the Health documentary - Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipQ0Gtk_EJs

Not sure if you're stating a case with this or trying to prompt a debate. I looked at some of the links because nutrition is something I find really interesting, doubly so when it becomes confused by ideologies and moralising.

I have no problem with vegans or vegetarians. Everyone has to make their own choices. I wish animals didn't have to suffer so I could eat, but I'm also comfortable with the idea that my body is the product of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, driven by an omnivorous diet and I suspect that variety is important.

I do get a bit annoyed when people push the idea that veganism is the only environmentally sustainable way to eat.

I support research and development of animal-free food products, but I worry that dietry trends and demonisation of fats over the past few decades means the creator's of these lab foods are too focussed on proteins and ignoring the importance of fats to our diets.

I've experimented with many ways of eating and my experience is that my body works best when I eat a diet that's low in carbohydrate from grain sources, nightshades and fruits and rich in high quality animal fats. What's now called keto, basically. When I eat that way my body weight normalises, I have energy to exercise, my mood stablises, I sleep properly, my allergies disappear - it just feels very right to me.

My partner however does terribly on this diet. So I don't think there is a single diet that's ideal for all humans. I think you have to find what works for you and make sure that whatever you're putting in is of the highest quality and least processed variety.

Counterintuitively, your partner should try doing more strict version of your diet, almost zero carb variant. Ketosis threshold varies from person to person and depends on physical activity. A lot of people make this mistake with keto, trying "mild" version, believing it would be easier, but this defeats the purpose, results in deficit of energy instead of the opposite.

The only problem I have with Veganism is when its adherents go all ape-shirt in trying to get me to convert.

I’m not necessarily trying to start a debate or state a case. It just seems to be one of the most contentious questions out there ‘what constitutes a healthy diet and is there a single diet that would produce health and vitality in every human on the planet.’ I don’t believe there is any evidence to support the claim that there is one.


You can’t escape the fact like you stated DuckHairback that we have evolved as part of nature over thousands of years and people have a genetic disposition for a varying degree of macronutrients. When the ground froze in the winter meat would have been the only source of energy because plants don’t grow on ice, which is hard wired into the individuals need for animal products to remain healthy. In the book 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects' by Weston Price, who travelled the world to investigate, states on page 272 ‘‘As yet I have not found a single group of primitive racial stock which was building and maintaining excellent bodies by living entirely on plant foods. I have found in many parts of the world most devout representatives of modern ethical systems advocating the restriction of foods to the vegetable products. In every instance where the groups involved had been long under these teachings, I found evidence of degeneration in the form of dental caries, and in the new generation in the form of abnormal dental arches to an extent very much higher than in the primitive groups who were not under this influence.’’


I’ve experimented as well with different ways of eating and found a similar outcome to your own. Following the diet of an Indian guru for example if you're from northern European decent doesn't seem like a good idea considering genetics. People seem to run into issues when they rigidly stick to a particular diet even when their physiological responses no longer match their diet philosophy. And they continue to stick to it because their whole identity is tied up with what they eat and won’t consider that health issues that they have may POSSINLY be linked to their rigid diet philosophy/dogma.


Diet dogma in my opinion is not the study of nutrition. And if someone wants to preach a particular diet then why is no one talking about soil science which is where the nutrition comes from in the first place. Instead the whole debate is focused on varying the levels of macronutrients which seems irrelevant if the source material is not produced in a closed organic cycle like it has been in nature (including plants and animals) since the dawn of time. When the rhetoric seems to be as long as the macronutrient levels are obeyed in which ever diet people choose to follow, then even if its highly processed food then its ok as long as it complies with the macronutrient ratios of the particular diet.


The soil is the digestive system of the planet. The planet is a living interconnected organism. How can you have healthy plants and animals without healthy soil. Food is information. Humans can only be as healthy as the plants and animals he consumes. I don't believe this can be synthetically replicated in a lab, a process which has been part of a closed organic system since the dawn of time in nature. As far as I can tell Nutrition is the study of soil science and we have destroyed the health of the soil. Artificial intelligence bees, lab meat, synthetic fertilisers and GMO everything will never replicate the way nature produces food.


How many people change what they eat based on media coverage based on a single study that no one ever reads to fact check, or even see who funded the study ( the low fat fad was the result of false scientific studies paid for by the sugar industry leading to millions of people worldwide to believe fat has no part in a healthy diet) and is catapulted worldwide through mainstream media and accepted as truth without question. Does any one follow the money trail to the source. Who understands how scientific studies are carried out and the differences between different methods. I personally don't.


When a lot of people are getting their health advice from the mainstream media then they don't stand a chance, of getting unbiased truth I believe (advertisement pressure). You need high quality food to build high quality muscle and an overall body. In what other scenario would you accept sub par ingredients and expect a good outcome. With the intent of building a wooden house, would you build a house out of timbre or would you use chipboard or MDF only to complain that your house didn't last for very long due to using low quality materials. Seems basic logic. But no lets just argue about macronutrient levels until the cows come home regardless of the source material.


Most people who are self-proclaimed nutrition experts have absolutely ZERO clinical experience. A billion studies with NO clinical experience to back it up is worthless in my opinion. Pure speculation. I don't think this statement should be taken lightly. A professional in a clinical setting will use what is appropriate to that particular individual (patient) based on many different factors (could even have psychosomatic origin not relating to diet at all). When you hear a diet guru saying that they have had 100 percent success rate with a particular way or style of eating and if everyone just ate this way then the world would be fine, then this should raise a HUGE banner of a red flag if you're not already indoctrinated into their way of thinking already. They would have had people which it did not work for but lie about it. A particular case that pertains to the raw vegan movement for an example https://www.amazon.com/Raw-Freedom-Comb ... oks&sr=1-1 .


Fnord, I believe that Vegans are coming from a place of good intentions but feel that they have not looked into all angles of the subject in much detail beyond a documentary showing industrial farming practices which I don't think anyone is arguing is a good way to treat animals. When such an extreme elimination diet is adopted, it leads to malnutrition in many people, which can wreak havoc with the hormonal system, which I believe explains why vegans in general seem to be so angry at times. A certain amount of animal products and fats seems to be essential for the hormonal system to function properly. Not even plants are vegan http://archive.bio.ed.ac.uk/jdeacon/mic ... ycorrh.htm or ruminants like cows and monkeys and apes certainly aren’t. Zoos have had issues with breeding lemurs in captivity I believe because they overlooked the fact that on the leaves they eat in the wild, have insects on them as well as insect eggs, which equate to roughly 10 percent of their diet. And with the added addition of a small amount of protein to the lemurs diet they successfully bred in captivity, with their real dietary requirements met. Similar story with captive lions.


There are farming practices which addresses the issues associated with soil degeneration. It mimics natural grazing patterns, restores top soil health, increases biodiversity, no till method (tractor an plough ), works with nature instead of against it and captures more carbon out of the air and puts it back into the soil. https://www.carboncowboys.org/


Resources:


https://www.westonaprice.org

https://chekinstitute.com/blog/eating-a ... -question/

https://chekinstitute.com/blog/do-you-r ... e-a-vegan/

https://chekinstitute.com/blog/saturate ... nsumption/

https://chekinstitute.com/blog/fats-sci ... anaticism/

https://chekinstitute.com/podcast-episo ... im-shieff/ Free runner Tim Shieff: The dark side of veganism

https://vegsoc.org/about-us/history-of- ... n-society/

https://www.vegansociety.com/

https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physic ... 227&sr=1-4

Unless you live in the country, being vegan is "too expensive". Growing your own is great, but knowing if things are legit vegan and all... we should be able to live with what is growing, not buing boxed and sealed food.

It used to be impossible to buy egg-free doughnuts, cakes and waffles. Now they're everywhere.

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