The burden of unpaid work for biological women

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blitzkrieg
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28 Feb 2022, 9:20 am

Okay, so I have stated in other posts that there are big advantages of being a woman, relative to men.

But there are also big disadvantages. Huge disadvantages. The following article is good on this matter/its topic:

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1972



Fireblossom
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01 Mar 2022, 11:25 am

Not exactly new news. The question is what can we, both as individuals and as a society, do to fix things?

One thing I've decided on is to not tolerate a man who wouldn't handle his fair share of housework. Many women have decided the same, but a problem they often face is the following: housework is shared equally before having children, but once a child is born and the mother stays home for maternity leave and to recover, she also takes main responsibility of the household. This in itself isn't a problem, but it's common that even after the woman returns to work, she still somehow ends up doing more housework the way she did while on maternity leave. One theory I have on this is that the men in those situations did housework before having children because they thought the women would leave them if they didn't, but that the women leaving them would be unlikely even if they didn't do their fair share of work now that they have children.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Mar 2022, 12:38 pm

I only skimmed through the article but it doesn't talk much about single women / single parents. It seems to assume that women have partners who don't do their share of the work. I do all of the work for myself and the kids, and I've done so for 25 years. All the women's work but also all the men's work (if such distinctions exist). Plus I worked full-time up to 80 hours a week sometimes, for decades. In my case I begrudge the courts for allowing my deadbeat ex to walk away, leaving me with the burden of childcare expenses @$1200/ month, home ownership, and all parenting / life skills. I would have welcomed him doing anything - teaching her to ride a bike or drive, helping her with school projects, painting her room --- anything. Not to mention paying his court ordered support so I didn't have to work so hard I had a stroke.


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blitzkrieg
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01 Mar 2022, 1:47 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I only skimmed through the article but it doesn't talk much about single women / single parents. It seems to assume that women have partners who don't do their share of the work. I do all of the work for myself and the kids, and I've done so for 25 years. All the women's work but also all the men's work (if such distinctions exist). Plus I worked full-time up to 80 hours a week sometimes, for decades. In my case I begrudge the courts for allowing my deadbeat ex to walk away, leaving me with the burden of childcare expenses @$1200/ month, home ownership, and all parenting / life skills. I would have welcomed him doing anything - teaching her to ride a bike or drive, helping her with school projects, painting her room --- anything. Not to mention paying his court ordered support so I didn't have to work so hard I had a stroke.


What? It says the exact opposite of that. The article backs up the fact that women do the majority of the world's unpaid work...

The article is agreeing with your sentiment. :lol:



blitzkrieg
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01 Mar 2022, 1:49 pm

Having to do the world's unpaid work is a distinct disadvantage, relative to men and their (mens) lack of unpaid work that they (barely) participate in.



IsabellaLinton
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01 Mar 2022, 2:02 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:

What? It says the exact opposite of that. The article backs up the fact that women do the majority of the world's unpaid work...

The article is agreeing with your sentiment. :lol:



Yes, I know it says women do more / most of the unpaid work. I just got the impression that they were referring to women who had men in the house, not contributing. I didn't read it very closely but it seemed to be talking about women with husbands, fathers, or other men in their same household. Maybe I'm wrong.

My point is that single women (without kids) need to do all the man / woman work to survive in this world, just like a single man would need to do all the woman / man work on his own too. In that respect I don't think single people should really be part of the equation because they both need to be self-sufficient. Some single men might be sloppy and not do housework, but the same goes for some single women.

Single parents who don't have the support of the other parent need to do everything, too. That goes for both genders because I know single fathers with deadbeat / non-involved women who don't contribute. I was just speaking from my own experience and my own frustration not having help -- and the fact the courts allow him to break Orders and be in contempt of court without any penalty. I guess my beef here is with the courts more than anything. If I had the money he was supposed to pay I could hire people for the tasks where I need parenting support.

Overall though yes - of course I agree with the article. Worldwide and throughout history women's work has been gruelling. Not just in childrearing and housework, but careful budgeting and worrying about home economics and the future of their families, for thousands of years. Add women working outside the home and quite often the division of labour is still unequal, even in marriage. Again I don't want to bash all men. But it's been the pattern throughout history.

Caring for ageing parents is yet another stressor. It's not only women who care for their parents but quite often that's the case. Women even care for their in-laws, quite often. In my case I'm caring for my kids as well as my mother who is infirm. I'll give my brother credit though. He sees her every day and does far more for her than I ever could. He also does all the cooking and cleaning for his partner and her two kids, despite working 60 hours a week.


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blitzkrieg
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01 Mar 2022, 2:07 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:

What? It says the exact opposite of that. The article backs up the fact that women do the majority of the world's unpaid work...

The article is agreeing with your sentiment. :lol:



Yes, I know it says women do more / most of the unpaid work. I just got the impression that they were referring to women who had men in the house, not contributing. I didn't read it very closely but it seemed to be talking about women with husbands, fathers, or other men in their same household. Maybe I'm wrong.

My point is that single women (without kids) need to do all the man / woman work to survive in this world, just like a single man would need to do all the woman / man work on his own too. In that respect I don't think single people should really be part of the equation because they both need to be self-sufficient. Some single men might be sloppy and not do housework, but the same goes for some single women.

Single parents who don't have the support of the other parent need to do everything, too. That goes for both genders because I know single fathers with deadbeat / non-involved women who don't contribute. I was just speaking from my own experience and my own frustration not having help -- and the fact the courts allow him to break Orders and be in contempt of court without any penalty. I guess my beef here is with the courts more than anything. If I had the money he was supposed to pay I could hire people for the tasks where I need parenting support.

Overall though yes - of course I agree with the article. Worldwide and throughout history women's work has been gruelling. Not just in childrearing and housework, but careful budgeting and worrying about home economics and the future of their families, for thousands of years. Add women working outside the home and quite often the division of labour is still unequal, even in marriage. Again I don't want to bash all men. But it's been the pattern throughout history.

Caring for ageing parents is yet another stressor. It's not only women who care for their parents but quite often that's the case. Women even care for their in-laws, quite often. In my case I'm caring for my kids as well as my mother who is infirm. I'll give my brother credit though. He sees her every day and does far more for her than I ever could. He also does all the cooking and cleaning for his partner and her two kids, despite working 60 hours a week.


I generally agree with the points you have made - and they are well made!

There are literally thousands of articles like this one on all kinds of different topics, so one article is not going to cover everything.



Fnord
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02 Mar 2022, 2:10 am

Where does the article make a distinction between “biological” and “non-biological” women?

Why do YOU feel the need to make the distinction?



HighLlama
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02 Mar 2022, 6:26 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Overall though yes - of course I agree with the article. Worldwide and throughout history women's work has been gruelling. Not just in childrearing and housework, but careful budgeting and worrying about home economics and the future of their families, for thousands of years. Add women working outside the home and quite often the division of labour is still unequal, even in marriage. Again I don't want to bash all men. But it's been the pattern throughout history.


Yes, but men have to work hard at overestimating their achievements, desirability, and intellect. :D. Women don't know how grueling this is!



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02 Mar 2022, 6:51 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
^ That's not particularly relevant in the Women's Discussion forum, and can we please avoid these "X has it worse than Y" arguments? They're rarely productive and just raise blood pressure.


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blitzkrieg
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03 Mar 2022, 4:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
Where does the article make a distinction between “biological” and “non-biological” women?

Why do YOU feel the need to make the distinction?


Because gender identity is separate from biological sex. That is the majority scientific consensus in the west at least.

There are a portion of scientists who believe biological sex & gender identity are the same thing, but they are a minority.

Gender identity = a social construct.
Biological sex = a persons bio-container.



Fnord
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03 Mar 2022, 7:08 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Where does the article make a distinction between “biological” and “non-biological” women? Why do YOU feel the need to make the distinction?
Because gender identity is separate from biological sex. That is the majority scientific consensus in the west at least. There are a portion of scientists who believe biological sex & gender identity are the same thing, but they are a minority. Gender identity = a social construct. Biological sex = a persons bio-container.
That does not explain why you feel the need to make such an irrelevant distinction, especially since such a distinction has no bearing on the article you cited.

What is your real agenda?



blitzkrieg
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03 Mar 2022, 7:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Where does the article make a distinction between “biological” and “non-biological” women? Why do YOU feel the need to make the distinction?
Because gender identity is separate from biological sex. That is the majority scientific consensus in the west at least. There are a portion of scientists who believe biological sex & gender identity are the same thing, but they are a minority. Gender identity = a social construct. Biological sex = a persons bio-container.
That does not explain why you feel the need to make such an irrelevant distinction, especially since such a distinction has no bearing on the article you cited.

What is your real agenda?


It is not irrelevant, in my opinion. You are free to have your own opinion. I am sad if I have offended you, but that is my opinion.

I don't have a specific agenda - you sound a bit paranoid.



blitzkrieg
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03 Mar 2022, 7:32 pm

I'll add to this.

I am in no way saying that transgender folk all turn out to be transgender because of childhood sexual abuse.

I am saying, in some, some cases, that is the cause.

This is a nuanced issue/political topic.



blitzkrieg
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03 Mar 2022, 7:39 pm

I have a live & let live mentality for most things in life. The only thing I don't abide by is people challenging me on an opinion.

An opinion is an opinion. And we have free speech in democracy.

I lived in the United Kingdom, which is a democracy.



SharonB
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03 Mar 2022, 9:41 pm

Despite being the primary income earner, while female in a hetero partnership with children, I am disproportionately negatively impacted by this cultural bias. In many ways what's good for the goose is good for the gander, but many privileged or socialized geese don't abide by that. I very much look forward to when gender roles are relaxed --- for the betterment of all people.