28 Apr 2023, 5:25 am
I just heard about covert narcissism and it appears to describe me, even though I don't have a sense of superiority.
It seems that these traits of narcissism I keep reading about are present in everybody. How can one not be a narcissist of some sort (overt or covert)? I don't understand.
I have anxiety disorder and ADHD (yeah, and ASD
I suppose 
). Although I have shyness I am still socially driven. I have insecurities, mostly about being on the spectrum. I like to be open, I do like attention although I don't go seeking attention. I have RSD, and I can't take criticism. I also get embarrassed very easily.
I just don't think it's fair to slap narcissism labels on any human with...seemingly human traits. Usually people see narcissists as toxic (like when threads pop up saying "how to spot a narcissist", especially regarding relationships). I just thought narcissism was what I thought it was, until I heard about covert narcissism.
Sigh. Can't a person have insecurities or have something like ADHD without being labelled as a type of narcissist too?
This thread is basically me admitting that I'm not perfect.
funeralxempire
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28 Apr 2023, 10:29 am
I've never heard it describes as Asperger's Disorder before
Quote:
Asperger's Disorder is often misdiagnosed as a cluster B personality disorder, most often as the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
Quote:
The Asperger's Disorder patient is self-centered and engrossed in a narrow range of interests and activities. Social and occupational interactions are severely hampered and conversational skills (the give and take of verbal intercourse) are primitive. The Asperger's patient's body language - eye to eye gaze, body posture, facial expressions - is constricted and artificial, akin to patients with the Schizoid, Schizotypal, and Narcissistic Personality Disorders. Nonverbal cues are virtually absent and their interpretation in others lacking.
Yet, Asperger's and personality pathologies have little in common.
Yet, Asperger's and personality pathologies have little in common.
Consider pathological narcissism.
Quote:
The narcissist switches between social agility and social impairment voluntarily. His social dysfunctioning is the outcome of conscious haughtiness and the reluctance to invest scarce mental energy in cultivating relationships with inferior and unworthy others. When confronted with potential Sources of Narcissistic Supply, however, the narcissist easily regains his social skills, his charm, and his gregariousness.
Many narcissists reach the highest rungs of their community, church, firm, or voluntary organization. Most of the time, they function flawlessly - though the inevitable blowups and the grating extortion of Narcissistic Supply usually put an end to the narcissist's career and social liaisons.
The Asperger's patient often wants to be accepted socially, to have friends, to marry, to be sexually active, and to sire offspring. He just doesn't have a clue how to go about it. His affect is limited. His initiative - for instance, to share his experiences with nearest and dearest or to engage in foreplay - is thwarted. His ability to divulge his emotions stilted. He is incapable or reciprocating and is largely unaware of the wishes, needs, and feelings of his interlocutors or counterparties.
Inevitably, Asperger's patients are perceived by others to be cold, eccentric, insensitive, indifferent, repulsive, exploitative or emotionally-absent. To avoid the pain of rejection, they confine themselves to solitary activities - but, unlike the schizoid, not by choice. They limit their world to a single topic, hobby, or person and dive in with the greatest, all-consuming intensity, excluding all other matters and everyone else. It is a form of hurt-control and pain regulation.
Thus, while the narcissist avoids pain by excluding, devaluing, and discarding others - the Asperger's patient achieves the same result by withdrawing and by passionately incorporating in his universe only one or two people and one or two subjects of interest. Both narcissists and Asperger's patients are prone to react with depression to perceived slights and injuries - but Asperger's patients are far more at risk of self-harm and suicide.
Many narcissists reach the highest rungs of their community, church, firm, or voluntary organization. Most of the time, they function flawlessly - though the inevitable blowups and the grating extortion of Narcissistic Supply usually put an end to the narcissist's career and social liaisons.
The Asperger's patient often wants to be accepted socially, to have friends, to marry, to be sexually active, and to sire offspring. He just doesn't have a clue how to go about it. His affect is limited. His initiative - for instance, to share his experiences with nearest and dearest or to engage in foreplay - is thwarted. His ability to divulge his emotions stilted. He is incapable or reciprocating and is largely unaware of the wishes, needs, and feelings of his interlocutors or counterparties.
Inevitably, Asperger's patients are perceived by others to be cold, eccentric, insensitive, indifferent, repulsive, exploitative or emotionally-absent. To avoid the pain of rejection, they confine themselves to solitary activities - but, unlike the schizoid, not by choice. They limit their world to a single topic, hobby, or person and dive in with the greatest, all-consuming intensity, excluding all other matters and everyone else. It is a form of hurt-control and pain regulation.
Thus, while the narcissist avoids pain by excluding, devaluing, and discarding others - the Asperger's patient achieves the same result by withdrawing and by passionately incorporating in his universe only one or two people and one or two subjects of interest. Both narcissists and Asperger's patients are prone to react with depression to perceived slights and injuries - but Asperger's patients are far more at risk of self-harm and suicide.
The use of language
Quote:
Patients with most personality disorders are skilled communicators and manipulators of language. In some personality disorders (Antisocial, Narcissistic, Histrionic, Paranoid) the patients' linguistic skills far surpass the average. The narcissist, for instance, hones language as an instrument and uses it to obtain Narcissistic Supply or as a weapon to obliterate his "enemies" and discarded sources with. Cerebral narcissists actually derive Narcissistic Supply from the consummate use they make of their innate loquaciousness.
In contrast, the Asperger's patient, though verbose at times (and taciturn on other occasions) has a far more limited range of tediously repetitive topics. People with Asperger's fail to observe conversational rules and etiquette (for instance, let others speak in turn). The Asperger's patient is unaware and, therefore, unable to decipher body language and external social and nonverbal cues and gestures. He is incapable of monitoring his own misbehavior. Psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines, schizotypals, histrionics, paranoids, and schizoids are similarly inconsiderate - but they control their behavior and are fully cognizant of reactions by others. They simply choose to ignore these data.
In contrast, the Asperger's patient, though verbose at times (and taciturn on other occasions) has a far more limited range of tediously repetitive topics. People with Asperger's fail to observe conversational rules and etiquette (for instance, let others speak in turn). The Asperger's patient is unaware and, therefore, unable to decipher body language and external social and nonverbal cues and gestures. He is incapable of monitoring his own misbehavior. Psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines, schizotypals, histrionics, paranoids, and schizoids are similarly inconsiderate - but they control their behavior and are fully cognizant of reactions by others. They simply choose to ignore these data.
Misdiagnosing Narcissism as Asperger's Disorder
28 Apr 2023, 10:44 am
Recidivist wrote:
I've never heard it describes as Asperger's Disorder before
Misdiagnosing Narcissism as Asperger's Disorder
Quote:
Asperger's Disorder is often misdiagnosed as a cluster B personality disorder, most often as the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
Misdiagnosing Narcissism as Asperger's Disorder
Did anyone else feel a chill up their spine after reading this?
A most disturbing assessment of autism.
The problem I have is that this sounds too definitive/black&white.
Much too SPECIFIC.
After all, it is an autism SPECTRUM.
I might look at the link more closely.
EDIT: Ironically, the website is called "HealthyPlace".
28 Apr 2023, 10:52 am
28 Apr 2023, 11:05 am
Pepe wrote:
Recidivist wrote:
I've never heard it describes as Asperger's Disorder before
Misdiagnosing Narcissism as Asperger's Disorder
Quote:
Asperger's Disorder is often misdiagnosed as a cluster B personality disorder, most often as the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
Misdiagnosing Narcissism as Asperger's Disorder
Did anyone else feel a chill up their spine after reading this?
A most disturbing assessment of autism.
The problem I have is that this sounds too definitive/black&white.
Much too SPECIFIC.
After all, it is an autism SPECTRUM.
I might look at the link more closely.
EDIT: Ironically, the website is called "HealthyPlace".
The article was written by Sam Vaknin , you should investigate him if you want troofs , he has a YT channel.
Sam Vaknin wrote:
I am a former visiting professor of psychology, a current professor of finance, and the author of the first book ever on "narcissistic abuse" (a phrase I coined, among many others, in the 1990s), "Malignant Self-love: narcissism Revisited". My work in psychology: http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/med...
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