What do you do...

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when you've been told by your advocate that you're about to get into an uphill battle over getting an IEP for your son. His state test scores and grades are too high to qualify for any services. Yet he's definitely an Aspie, and really does have trouble - it's just not OBVIOUS trouble that the school can see. What do you do??

Don't hate me. I homeschooled my aspie to avoid all that. What you should do, I don't know.

IT really depends on his "troubles" and what kind of services he needs. And was the advocate remarking "uphill" in general (which would be useless info, imo) or about requesting a specific thing in an IEP? Or was she stating that you might not get an IEP at all?

Does your son benefit from being in a school setting? I don't recall overall intelligence playing a part in getting an IEP. In fact, my son's academic acheivement is what maintains his programs. I mean dyslexic people aren't "dumb" but they need help in learning how to read and do math in different ways. Autistic kids are bright and they need help to be successful.

Find a new advocate! Isn't an advocate supposed to help you!!

I have 2 sons with Asperger's. They are both very intelligent and my oldest gets good grades.

But, for them to achieve their potential, they need services.

Your son will probably need a 'Social Curriculum' and help with regulating his emotions.

He will also need to be able to take time out when he's overloaded with noise/people.

To quote Corzars (another WP member) - it's time to put your boxing gloves on!

Hele

Can you spell out what a Social Curriculum is, Smelena? Thanks!

RhondaR --

What you're describing sounds like the situation we were in when we lived in California (Sacramento area). What state are you in?

The comment by the advocate may just be preparation for you to deal with the school district and how THEY would view things, because they obviously don't understand HFA/Asperger's and the special needs that go along with that particular diagnosis. What's more likely is that, if you're in a not-so-great school district, they are using things like good test scores to purposely not provide services to kids because PROVIDING SERVICES COSTS MONEY TO THE DISTRICT -- money they don't want to spend if they don't have to.

If you can, attend parent support groups for special needs kids so that you can find out how other parents were able to get services for their children, or how they handled their own "uphill battles." I found that going to these things were better for me in finding how to specifically handle the school district personnel. This forum is great for general information, but you have to talk to neighbors who are dealing with the problem locally to get good local information.

Kris

"don't hate me. I homeschooled my aspie.." ??Not sure why you would say that?

Very similar (actually almost identical) situation and I also pulled my aspie out of school. We are on our 2nd year of homeschooling. Probably not much help to you but that is what we did and we are so glad we did! We work on all the social, emotional stuff on our own and through a social skills/therapy group. School just didn't know what to do with him.

well, for those of us aspies who never had a chance at IEP or any intervention at all (it was before Aspergers was recognized) i'd have to say that it's not the end of the world. be prepared to teach him outside of class, because more likely than not the school is going to gear their classes toward the least common denominator anyway, and you want the kid to get a decent education. he probably wouldn't get it in a public school even if he wasn't aspie.

keep the tv off, unless it's on an educational program. keep the computer toys as rewards. keep up a regular schedule of visits to the library. discuss the nightly news, including the causes and effects, and keep it open ended. socratic method is a great tool for fostering further discussion and developing critical thinking skills. roughly parallel what's being taught in the classroom - subject-wise, but tailor your instruction to your child's abilities.

i was a single mom who worked two jobs (and still occasionally do). if i would have had the option, i would have not sent my kid to school until maybe high school, i'd have home-schooled her. she still turned out ok, but they wasted a lot of her potential. i only had about two hours a night with her (over supper, washing up, etc.) to work with her - it wasn't enough, in my opinion. if you can home school, do it, but keep some interaction up - the kid needs to be able to be in social situations, so if the school has a music program or something that he can go to the school for a couple days a week, i'd have him do that. again, tailor it to your kid's needs.

good luck.

ps my kid is aspie, i'm aspie.

In my mind, the answer is almost always homeschool. But I have learned that some people erupt with rage if that option is suggested. I do know it is not always the answer. I could not homeschool my daughter with autism plus or the daughter with fetal alchohol effect. But I did well with the three boys.

I don't hate anyone who homeschools - but it absolutely is not for me, or my son at this point. As anyone does, I have my gifts and limitations - and those are beyond mine at this particular point in time. That could certainly change, but for right now - no.

I was in a hurry last night when I posted...I live in Southern California, and our school district is a good one, for your overachieving child. We go to a Blue Ribbon/Distinguished school - and I've noticed that as such, it's filled with overachievers (both parents and kids). It seems to me that any other kid at that school can get lost in the shuffle. For all it's wonderfulness in test scores and great teachers - I also know that this district (as with most in California) really isn't the greatest with it's special educational services. In this area, I've been told that most people go into the IEP process with an advocate, so of course I checked into one. I think it's probably important to note that I have NOT submitted my request for an IEP just yet (we don't start school until next week). Anyway, the advocate came to our house for a consultation, and asked to see my son's report cards from last year, as well as his state testing results. Well - last year, his final report card was basically all A's with two B's, and his test scores show him in the Advanced Category in both the testing areas: Language Arts and Math. Two things to note: my son has Aspergers yes, but he's also brilliant, as I think a huge percentage of Aspie kids are; and, his teacher last year (he is going into 3rd grade now) told me over and over that he would not be doing as well as he is in school without constant monitoring on her behalf. I would imagine that at some point here very soon, his teachers will be a lot less willing to constantly monitor and redirect as necessary. I have to agree with his teacher, because the truth is - everyday at home I sit with him after school and monitor his homework. I mean, I'm right at the table next to him, and the entire way through it we're erasing sentences and rewriting things as necessary, and I'm totally involved in the homework and project process. There probably wasn't even one assignment that he did here at home without my help - with the exception of two weeks in October when I was out of the country, and it was obvious that I hadn't helped him that week based on his spelling test grade as well as his homework grades those two weeks.

Anyway, after seeing his grades and test results, the advocate looked at my husband and I and told us that we'd have a very large uphill battle ahead of us with getting either an IEP OR services/accomodations under Section 504 because it would appear that my sons formally diagnosed disability has little to no impact on his education. I would agree that academically that would appear to be the case, but there's way more going on here than just that, as I'm sure all of you know and understand. Never mind the issues my son has with just withdrawing in class and "going somewhere else", or anxiously chewing on his fingers to the point where they bleed...and that's AFTER taking his Lexapro each day. (or his clothes - last year he chewed through a leather jacket in record time!) Never mind that he doesn't know how to hold a give and take conversation or how to really read people's faces or how to understand the subtle social nuances or social cues for things. I mentioned to the advocate that he already hates school - which he does, and the advocate suggested having him tested for GATE. Well, that's fabulous except that in our district, GATE is extremely heavy in Language Arts - which is what gives my son the most anxiety. Take spelling for instance - most of the kids at our school can look at a spelling list a couple of times and be able to do fairly well on a spelling test. For my son, we have to have written practice every single day for him to get it. If we don't do it, he doesn't do well on the test, and if I try to quiz him just verbally - he really gets anxious and he can't visualize the words. The same goes for math and timed tests, really. So, the idea of getting him in GATE - while it may very well challenge him, would also probably drive him right over the proverbial edge, so to speak.

He then suggested that we go forward with the IEP request, and the school would then put together a school study committee for him. They would preliminarily evaluate my son, but then would likely come back saying that there isn't any evidence of his Autism-like behaviors to warrant a full evaluation, so then we would need to request an IEE (Individual Educational Evaluation) and request that the district pay for it. He still feels as though the district would fight it in the end - thus ending in Due Process. Keep in mind that we're not asking for a special day class or anything remotely close to that. We just think our son would be far more successful in the long run with some basic accomodations in the classroom, someplace to go or be when he's really anxious or freaking out (as opposed to chewing on his fingers or clothing or wanting to run), no timed tests, a social skills/speech pragmatics class, some motor skill development (both large and small), written and verbal instructions, some guidance when it comes to needing to form groups with other kids in the class for projects, and some foreshadowing or "front-loading" with regards to any changes that might happen during the course of his day. Fortunately and unfortunately at the same time, my son is pretty good about keeping it together at school - it's only after he comes to the car in the afternoon that he starts to fall apart on me. There's no way to prove that to the district, though.

I have been told since then that this particular advocate (who has two stepdaughters within this district) isn't nearly "STRONG" enough....and that with a formal diagnosis (which we indeed have), that would mean an automatic IEP. I don't believe that to be the case, because I know that the key for qualifying for special education services, at least here in this state is that the disability still has to have a significant impact on his education.

After all of that, I really sat back and wondered if it was even worth trying at this point. I do notice more of a difference in him each year compared to the other kids, but maybe it really ISN'T enough to require extra help. So, I contacted a friend of mine who is a special ed teacher and case manager in Wisconsin, and we came up with a plan. The fact is, my son has done well in school up until now because he's been lucky enough to have had a ton of help at home as well as at school. I know that I never had to work this hard with my daughter (who is NT and GATE identified) in order to get her to finish homework, even in second grade and certainly not in 3rd. What I think I'm going to do, is have my son do his homework on his own, without my constant intervention. If he asks me for help, of course I'm going to provide it, but the key is to allow him the opportunity to show me on his own that he's doing just fine. I will also talk to the teacher at school, and depending upon who his teacher is and if I already know her - I will likely explain to her that I really want to see what he is capable of without constant monitoring. Meaning, I don't want the teacher standing over him any more than she would do for any other student. I'm not sure what this all will show me, but I think it's time to see just how well he's really doing and if he really NEEDS help. Maybe he doesn't right now, and hey - that's fine. I still need help with him behaviorally at home, that much is certain, but one thing at a time.

It's very frustrating to know what to do at times, which is why I think that doing nothing right now might honestly be the best option overall. I'm definitely going to be watching to see how the year unfolds, but on the same token there isn't anything wrong with giving my son the room to "grow" a bit either. I'm still here for him when he needs it, and I won't hesitate to go to the school as necessary, but I also don't want to create a mountain of trouble if it's not necessary. As I've learned, the school doesn't really care what goes on at home as long as it's not impacting him at school.

I don't hate anyone who homeschools - but it absolutely is not for me, or my son at this point. As anyone does, I have my gifts and limitations - and those are beyond mine at this particular point in time. That could certainly change, but for right now - no.

I was in a hurry last night when I posted...I live in Southern California, and our school district is a good one, for your overachieving child. We go to a Blue Ribbon/Distinguished school - and I've noticed that as such, it's filled with overachievers (both parents and kids). It seems to me that any other kid at that school can get lost in the shuffle. For all it's wonderfulness in test scores and great teachers - I also know that this district (as with most in California) really isn't the greatest with it's special educational services. In this area, I've been told that most people go into the IEP process with an advocate, so of course I checked into one. I think it's probably important to note that I have NOT submitted my request for an IEP just yet (we don't start school until next week). Anyway, the advocate came to our house for a consultation, and asked to see my son's report cards from last year, as well as his state testing results. Well - last year, his final report card was basically all A's with two B's, and his test scores show him in the Advanced Category in both the testing areas: Language Arts and Math. Two things to note: my son has Aspergers yes, but he's also brilliant, as I think a huge percentage of Aspie kids are; and, his teacher last year (he is going into 3rd grade now) told me over and over that he would not be doing as well as he is in school without constant monitoring on her behalf. I would imagine that at some point here very soon, his teachers will be a lot less willing to constantly monitor and redirect as necessary. I have to agree with his teacher, because the truth is - everyday at home I sit with him after school and monitor his homework. I mean, I'm right at the table next to him, and the entire way through it we're erasing sentences and rewriting things as necessary, and I'm totally involved in the homework and project process. There probably wasn't even one assignment that he did here at home without my help - with the exception of two weeks in October when I was out of the country, and it was obvious that I hadn't helped him that week based on his spelling test grade as well as his homework grades those two weeks.

Anyway, after seeing his grades and test results, the advocate looked at my husband and I and told us that we'd have a very large uphill battle ahead of us with getting either an IEP OR services/accomodations under Section 504 because it would appear that my sons formally diagnosed disability has little to no impact on his education. I would agree that academically that would appear to be the case, but there's way more going on here than just that, as I'm sure all of you know and understand. Never mind the issues my son has with just withdrawing in class and "going somewhere else", or anxiously chewing on his fingers to the point where they bleed...and that's AFTER taking his Lexapro each day. (or his clothes - last year he chewed through a leather jacket in record time!) Never mind that he doesn't know how to hold a give and take conversation or how to really read people's faces or how to understand the subtle social nuances or social cues for things. I mentioned to the advocate that he already hates school - which he does, and the advocate suggested having him tested for GATE. Well, that's fabulous except that in our district, GATE is extremely heavy in Language Arts - which is what gives my son the most anxiety. Take spelling for instance - most of the kids at our school can look at a spelling list a couple of times and be able to do fairly well on a spelling test. For my son, we have to have written practice every single day for him to get it. If we don't do it, he doesn't do well on the test, and if I try to quiz him just verbally - he really gets anxious and he can't visualize the words. The same goes for math and timed tests, really. So, the idea of getting him in GATE - while it may very well challenge him, would also probably drive him right over the proverbial edge, so to speak.

He then suggested that we go forward with the IEP request, and the school would then put together a school study committee for him. They would preliminarily evaluate my son, but then would likely come back saying that there isn't any evidence of his Autism-like behaviors to warrant a full evaluation, so then we would need to request an IEE (Individual Educational Evaluation) and request that the district pay for it. He still feels as though the district would fight it in the end - thus ending in Due Process. Keep in mind that we're not asking for a special day class or anything remotely close to that. We just think our son would be far more successful in the long run with some basic accomodations in the classroom, someplace to go or be when he's really anxious or freaking out (as opposed to chewing on his fingers or clothing or wanting to run), no timed tests, a social skills/speech pragmatics class, some motor skill development (both large and small), written and verbal instructions, some guidance when it comes to needing to form groups with other kids in the class for projects, and some foreshadowing or "front-loading" with regards to any changes that might happen during the course of his day. Fortunately and unfortunately at the same time, my son is pretty good about keeping it together at school - it's only after he comes to the car in the afternoon that he starts to fall apart on me. There's no way to prove that to the district, though.

I have been told since then that this particular advocate (who has two stepdaughters within this district) isn't nearly "STRONG" enough....and that with a formal diagnosis (which we indeed have), that would mean an automatic IEP. I don't believe that to be the case, because I know that the key for qualifying for special education services, at least here in this state is that the disability still has to have a significant impact on his education.

After all of that, I really sat back and wondered if it was even worth trying at this point. I do notice more of a difference in him each year compared to the other kids, but maybe it really ISN'T enough to require extra help. So, I contacted a friend of mine who is a special ed teacher and case manager in Wisconsin, and we came up with a plan. The fact is, my son has done well in school up until now because he's been lucky enough to have had a ton of help at home as well as at school. I know that I never had to work this hard with my daughter (who is NT and GATE identified) in order to get her to finish homework, even in second grade and certainly not in 3rd. What I think I'm going to do, is have my son do his homework on his own, without my constant intervention. If he asks me for help, of course I'm going to provide it, but the key is to allow him the opportunity to show me on his own that he's doing just fine. I will also talk to the teacher at school, and depending upon who his teacher is and if I already know her - I will likely explain to her that I really want to see what he is capable of without constant monitoring. Meaning, I don't want the teacher standing over him any more than she would do for any other student. I'm not sure what this all will show me, but I think it's time to see just how well he's really doing and if he really NEEDS help. Maybe he doesn't right now, and hey - that's fine. I still need help with him behaviorally at home, that much is certain, but one thing at a time.

It's very frustrating to know what to do at times, which is why I think that doing nothing right now might honestly be the best option overall. I'm definitely going to be watching to see how the year unfolds, but on the same token there isn't anything wrong with giving my son the room to "grow" a bit either. I'm still here for him when he needs it, and I won't hesitate to go to the school as necessary, but I also don't want to create a mountain of trouble if it's not necessary. As I've learned, the school doesn't really care what goes on at home as long as it's not impacting him at school.


Wow this is frustrating!! !

Hi Rhonda,
I just wanted to pipe in here and tell you I am in the EXACT same position with the school, and tell you what I am doing about it.....

I am in Central Cali btw.

Okay first of all, you certainly can get him an IEP even though he makes great grades, you just have to fight a little bit harder.

The first thing you need to do is call the IEP and request the testing. You should ask for testing in all areas of concern. Academic, Speech, OT, ect and then ask them to evaluate him for Autistic Traits. They should observe him and also give you some questionieres to fill out regarding him. Two good one's are the Gilliams Autism Rating Scale and the Gilliam Asperger Rating Scale.

If they refuse, write a letter requesting all of this. Send it to the principle and cc it to the teacher. ONce this letter is documented, they cannot refuse by law to do this testing. I would also send this certified and request a return signature.

Also journal all of his behavior's you see. Include how he can't do homework independently (by 3rd grade he should be, and if he's not then it means the school has dropped the ball somewhere along the way). Journal especially the Red Flags of Autism.

They can educationally dx him, and sometimes it's frustraiting as when your child "Checks out" in school, they might see it as Day dreaming, instead of an Autistic Trait.....

If you can get him qualified in at least one area... ie academically, speech ect, then you can get him on an IEP. ONce you have an IEP you can go from there.

Another thing is, have you thought about having him evaluated privately? You can certainly bring whatever tests he's had and the school has to at least consider it.

One thing to remember..... the school will only do basic, "standard" tests and sometimes you have to get more detailed testing done. The private eval should be more detailed than any schools can offer.

As I say I am in the same boat and plan to fight like he// for my son. He has two private evals, and a pys treating him for ASD.

1st eval said Disorder of Written expression, Visual Motor processing Disorder, and Processing Disorder, with Strong Autistic Traits. Then my Pysciatrist dx-d him with Autistic Spectrum Disorder, and the school still wouldn't accept these eval's, Then I took him to the Regional Center and he was again tested and came out with Autistic Disorder (Moderate range) and a few other dx-s and the testing they did supported the first doc's eval of the Learning Disabilities.

Now I have so much ammo, they better not DARE to brush us aside any longer.

My son has always tested well, but it's the everday work in school that stresses him out, and boy let me tell you he is stressed.

It doesn't sound like you have a very good advocate. I know of a great great place for you to contact if you need a new one to give you info on the law and to back you up in the fight. Please feel free to email me if you would like this info.

Good luck, and never ever give up. No one can fight for your child like you can.

Lainie

Yeah. We live here in SoCal, too. The schools, blue ribbon or not, are way below where they should be. Be prepared to do what you can outside school even if you can't home-school.

You're also going to have to get him to learn to be self-directed: you're not going to be able to work one-on-one with him when he hits high school and afterwards if he goes to college. He needs those skills more than he needs to know the longitude and latitude of Moscow or how many senators are Congress, or when Wyoming became a state. Better to work on those kind of skills and not worry about the subject matter. If he's bright, he can pick that up in a flash. But only if he has the drive and inclination to do so. THOSE are what he needs to learn now.

Good luck!

When I wrote about the Blue Ribbon schools, and the fact that it's a good school - which it absolutely is, I meant specifically for an overachiever - like my oldest. It is NOT good, however, for any kid who struggles, whether it just be a moderate struggle to get through school (not everyone is an A student and for most schools- that's OK), or because a child has a specific disability that impacts their education. Those kids tend to get overlooked and brushed under the carpet.

Thanks for the advice Lainie. Everyone I talk to her says that I should be prepared to pay an attorney and go to court. We do live in an apparently upscale area these days - but the fact is, my husband and I aren't able to poor vast amounts of money into fighting the district. We live paycheck to paycheck, and that's not likely to change any time soon. That's one of the reasons why we haven't rushed to get our son privately evaluated - it's expensive! Yes, one could say this is the most important investment we could make, and I totally agree - but the fact remains that we don't have thousands to spend. That's just the way it is.

Regardless, something will need to be done, so I am going to take your advice Lainie, and see what comes of it. You suggested things that the advocate we consulted with didn't even begin to cover, so I appreciate you taking the time to tell me what you're doing so far. Most people don't even have a clue what ASD is, much less how to work the IEP with it. Everyone I know just assumes it's automatic, and it's really not. You still have to demonstrate that your child is being significantly impacted educationally as a result - and that's not always easy to do.

A couple of questions that I can think of offhand - I will turn his IEP request in to the Principal in person, just because that's what's normally done at our school, and I want to make sure he gets it. He's not necesarily sympathetic towards kids with any kind of issue or difference. With this request, should I go ahead and attach the formal diagnosis report I have from his neurologist? I also compiled a list of behaviors for his doctor back when we were having him evaluated for the Aspie diagnosis - so I've already journaled his behaviors, should I include that as well? I was told back when we were trying to find a doctor to evaluate him that we shouldn't even try taking him to a psychologist because the schools won't accept a psychiatrist's diagnosis of Aspergers or Autism, so we went straight to a neurologist - ours works at UCI medical center in the Autism Center.

I realize that my son is really old enough now to where he should be doing SOME of his homework without my monitoring, believe me - I can think of better ways to spend each afternoon than sitting with him and trying to get him to write decent sentences or memorize how to spell his spelling lists each week (like perhaps doing my OWN homework!). It's just that up until the end of the last school year, I didn't know what was going on - and I wasn't about to just let him suffer through. So I've always helped him. I know that his teachers have always monitored him too, I guess it's just easier to do that each year than it is to actually say something "official" and get the child some help. It's amazing what the schools will allow to fall through the cracks, isn't it?

This will probably be a very interesting school year....

Most likely.

A word of warning: Beware the tendency to hover.

Yes, you want to do what's best for your child (most of us do). Yes, you're willing to make sacrifices to work with him, etc....

But also remember to let him fall flat on his face from time to time. If you hover and protect and arrange things for him constantly, he'll never learn cause-and-effect and how to pick himself up from a failure. I've seen kids who try something, it blows up, and they give up - primarily because mom always was there to make sure everything got done, and so they never had to learn to be responsible for themselves. So, when they finally make a little attempt at something on their own and it goes badly, they just shut down. That is the real handicap to worry about. Just remember that there's no IEP for the world, once he gets out in it. Again, it's not just the ABCs and the math he needs to be learning now. There are far more important lessons.

It's quite often harder to watch the your kid fail and then deal with the fallout (especially if you have a lot of constraints on your time and patience already), but it really is necessary for the kid to be able to do so. He needs to learn that what he does for himself has a direct impact on his life. It's never too early to start that lesson.

Good luck.

Hi Again Rhonda,
Yes I would definetly bring anything that supports his dx, so It will go in his file. Also the place I took my son... the Regional Center, they evaluated him for free. The wonderful thing about the Regional Center is that once they take on your child as a client, then they advocate for you, and you have access to their lawyer. Schools will back down once the Regional Center get involved. The Regional Center can also offer many other services the school might not be able offer. This includes assisted living skills by the time they are older if it's needed.

Google Regional Centers in Calif (or something similar) and the site will show you all of the locations in Cali. There's several of them.

If you hand deliver the letter, get the priniciple to sign and date it, and give her a copy. One of the most important things I have found out is a paper trail.

Good luck hon

Lainie