Been Away for about 2 years, back
19 Sep 2024, 9:22 pm
I had to "go away" from social media for a while.
I am a 41 yo male, and have 5 kids but about to have 6. The two older ones are nonverbal autistic, and my oldest son (second oldest) is severely autistic.
I work in "model risk" and have PhD in Economics. I realized something was up with me 15 years ago, and thanks to having my kids, I decided to get officially evaluated for ADHD and ASD. I got both (not that the diagnosis changes anything - if it was a "no" I would not have believed it).
Its been frustrating because I never really achieved my full potential. My PhD was from one of the lowest ranked programs in the US and I have slowly watched the people I graduated with rise higher than me in their careers.
I'm all in all happy in life so I am not complaining, but I think back and wonder what I could have accomplished if I weren't ADHD. ADHD really sucks more in my opinion, ASD is more of a downer when younger but ADHD really impacts your career. I think with my abilities I could have done a lot more if I weren't so bad at people.
Anyways, I was pretty down about my two older kids a few years ago and I kindof spiraled into a depression. My oldest son poops on the floor and pees in vents despite our best efforts to toilet train. I gained a lot of weight and started drinking a ton.
I lost a lot of weight by using a recumbent stationary bike for about 45 mins a day 4-6 times per week. With ADHD I need the extreme exercise, and I still drink but not as much. I smoke pot when I can get it and vape THC/CBD a lot as well.
funeralxempire
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Age: 39
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Posts: 28,543
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19 Sep 2024, 10:03 pm
Welcome back.
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19 Sep 2024, 11:27 pm
I will give two answers. First the official answer I give to people in real life. Then, the one I say to myself in my head.
Official: "It was and continues to be a challenge."
Real answer: Quite honestly, I regretted my life choices after #2. When #3 arrived, she changed my life. #2 still poops and pees on the floor and he is 6. I put him on the toilet regularly but he just sits there. He prefers to pee into our vents apparently (which I am boarding up tomorrow). He poops on the floor.
I can't really explain it all quickly, but I really hated life. To some extent, I am still deeply depressed by them. I often wonder if it would have been best if I had not had kids. The first two did significant damage to our house. I would estimate that to repair the damage they did would cost at least $60,000-$75,000 USD. My fear is it would be more than that. If its more, basically my home equity is gone. I try not to dwell on it. They have a tendency to cause floods whenever they get access to a water source and destroy literally anything they touch - we are having to replace the drywall with wood walls because they are ripping holes in the wall.
But, #3 was attached to me from very early on, like almost instantly. We formed a bond, and it developed. I started to want to live and, I know this sounds horrible to my first two, but I started to think without the first two I wouldn't have #3. I was OK with drinking myself to an early death to be honest.
#3 is now 4 and she is also diagnosed autistic. However, she does talk but is significantly behind her age, she is 4. My wife says that she learned to talk to annoy me. She is VERY attached to me.
When she could crawl, she crawled over to me and got a habit of falling asleep in my arm as I played a computer game on my laptop. I thought "wow she seems to like me." Well, that kindof went out of control. She is now pretty much possessive of me. She does not like me talking to anyone else - even my wife (her mother!). If I talk to my wife, she will come over and make up some BS reason to get my attention. Her go to is to complain about being sick, but my favorite is she goes "daddy, my arm is broken." Or, she will say she is tired and wants to go to bed, she goes "Daddy, I'm TIRED!" and its like 2 hours after she woke up. She says that to get me to stop talking to someone else and try to put her to sleep (which would mean I spend time with only her).
It can be... stressful. She is whiny as hell to me. But, she is also my helper. She pretty much helps me clean whenever I clean anything, and if I put things away she helps me with that.
#4 is ALSO diagnosed autistic. So far, nonverbal. He is 2.5 years old at this time. But, he is a different personality than the older two. He is more joyous. He has a love for life I can't describe. He likes chaos too, but its a lot less than the first two. He's more of a prankster than a vandal like the first two.
#5 is a 1 yo boy, and - we say this with every kid so far - I do not think he is autistic. He is barely 1 and I've noticed he is already responding to requests. Like if we say "lets go" to leave a room he follows. The older two did not do that until much, much older. My 6 yo son is still difficult to get to do ANYTHING, he's on another planet.
#5 loves his older brother #4 and follows him around. #4 is annoyed with it but there are moments when he is sweet to him and allows him to hangout with him. We have seen #4 put a blanket on #5 when he is napping two times and he stops to adjust it to ensure his body is covered. We think they will be best buds so its adorable.
#6 will be a girl, so it will be a 3-3 split. 6 kids is the smallest # of kids you can have to have each kid have 2 brothers and 2 sisters.
Generally, I like to hangout with the girls. They are easier and less stressful at this point in time. If I want to go out of the house, I generally take the girls with me. #2, the older autistic boy, is extremely difficult to take out in public and we have 1-1 rule with him so that means one of us has to be with only him and no one else because he causes... problems. Flips out, runs off, etc.
Canadian Freedom Lover
Sea Gull
Joined: 16 Dec 2022
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: Vancouver Canada
Canadian Freedom Lover
Sea Gull
Joined: 16 Dec 2022
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: Vancouver Canada
20 Sep 2024, 1:24 am
I will give two answers. First the official answer I give to people in real life. Then, the one I say to myself in my head.
Official: "It was and continues to be a challenge."
Real answer: Quite honestly, I regretted my life choices after #2. When #3 arrived, she changed my life. #2 still poops and pees on the floor and he is 6. I put him on the toilet regularly but he just sits there. He prefers to pee into our vents apparently (which I am boarding up tomorrow). He poops on the floor.
I can't really explain it all quickly, but I really hated life. To some extent, I am still deeply depressed by them. I often wonder if it would have been best if I had not had kids. The first two did significant damage to our house. I would estimate that to repair the damage they did would cost at least $60,000-$75,000 USD. My fear is it would be more than that. If its more, basically my home equity is gone. I try not to dwell on it. They have a tendency to cause floods whenever they get access to a water source and destroy literally anything they touch - we are having to replace the drywall with wood walls because they are ripping holes in the wall.
But, #3 was attached to me from very early on, like almost instantly. We formed a bond, and it developed. I started to want to live and, I know this sounds horrible to my first two, but I started to think without the first two I wouldn't have #3. I was OK with drinking myself to an early death to be honest.
#3 is now 4 and she is also diagnosed autistic. However, she does talk but is significantly behind her age, she is 4. My wife says that she learned to talk to annoy me. She is VERY attached to me.
When she could crawl, she crawled over to me and got a habit of falling asleep in my arm as I played a computer game on my laptop. I thought "wow she seems to like me." Well, that kindof went out of control. She is now pretty much possessive of me. She does not like me talking to anyone else - even my wife (her mother!). If I talk to my wife, she will come over and make up some BS reason to get my attention. Her go to is to complain about being sick, but my favorite is she goes "daddy, my arm is broken." Or, she will say she is tired and wants to go to bed, she goes "Daddy, I'm TIRED!" and its like 2 hours after she woke up. She says that to get me to stop talking to someone else and try to put her to sleep (which would mean I spend time with only her).
It can be... stressful. She is whiny as hell to me. But, she is also my helper. She pretty much helps me clean whenever I clean anything, and if I put things away she helps me with that.
#4 is ALSO diagnosed autistic. So far, nonverbal. He is 2.5 years old at this time. But, he is a different personality than the older two. He is more joyous. He has a love for life I can't describe. He likes chaos too, but its a lot less than the first two. He's more of a prankster than a vandal like the first two.
#5 is a 1 yo boy, and - we say this with every kid so far - I do not think he is autistic. He is barely 1 and I've noticed he is already responding to requests. Like if we say "lets go" to leave a room he follows. The older two did not do that until much, much older. My 6 yo son is still difficult to get to do ANYTHING, he's on another planet.
#5 loves his older brother #4 and follows him around. #4 is annoyed with it but there are moments when he is sweet to him and allows him to hangout with him. We have seen #4 put a blanket on #5 when he is napping two times and he stops to adjust it to ensure his body is covered. We think they will be best buds so its adorable.
#6 will be a girl, so it will be a 3-3 split. 6 kids is the smallest # of kids you can have to have each kid have 2 brothers and 2 sisters.
Generally, I like to hangout with the girls. They are easier and less stressful at this point in time. If I want to go out of the house, I generally take the girls with me. #2, the older autistic boy, is extremely difficult to take out in public and we have 1-1 rule with him so that means one of us has to be with only him and no one else because he causes... problems. Flips out, runs off, etc.
I'm sorry if this question comes off as rude, but why did you decide to have more children after bringing two high needs autistic kids into this world? I imagine they are enough work as is.
20 Sep 2024, 10:09 am
[/quote]
I'm sorry if this question comes off as rude, but why did you decide to have more children after bringing two high needs autistic kids into this world? I imagine they are enough work as is.[/quote]
It doesn't come off as rude, it is rude and disgusting.
What if I told you I believe my son could be something someday? Maybe it takes more time but he is highly intelligent. I love him even if I hate cleaning up his poop daily.
We are pro natalists that believe in the fundamental worth of ALL human life.
20 Sep 2024, 10:11 am
Is the mother(s) also Autistic?
Hah well thanks for thinking I could have had several women. Its all one.
She is not autistic at all nor ADHD. When people meet the both of us there is a double take of "wait shes with this weirdo?"
20 Sep 2024, 12:44 pm
Welcome to Wrong Planet.
Sometimes when I look for answers I try the internet. Some of their advice is good and some bad. So I looked up a link on toilet training autistic children and this was one of the threads that showed up.
Now to our favorite toilet training strategies:
1. When it comes to communication: less is more! Use clear and simple pictures or visual prompts such as the visual support below from the Autism Speaks tool kit.
-- Use the visual prompt with simple and direct language to help your child understand what is expected. For example, say “Time for potty” instead of asking “Do you need to use the potty now?”
-- We’ve found it most effective when parents simultaneously present the verbal direction with the visual support while immediately guiding the child to the toilet with little or no additional discussion. Visual schedule for using the toilet
2. Don’t delay the underwear! Move your child into underwear as soon as possible. We realize that this seems an intimidating step for many parents. But we’ve found it’s really important. Let’s face it, modern diapers and pull-ups can be too good at whisking away the pee. As a result, your child may not even realize that he has urinated. Putting your child in underwear helps him associate accidents with the discomfort of wetness on his skin.
3. Don’t fuss over accidents. When your child does have an accident, minimize discussing, cajoling, pleading, teasing or other fussing that can have the unintended result of reinforcing the accident behavior. Instead, provide a brief reminder that you expect your child to use the toilet next time he needs to go. Then complete the cleanup with as little fanfare and discussion as possible. Save your attention for when your child is using – or attempting to use – the toilet.
4. Reward the desired behaviors. Identify some activities, toys or small treats that will motivate your child. Reserve these for rewarding your child’s toileting successes, and only for rewarding toileting success. Chances are your child will work harder at achieving success if he can’t get these items any other way.
-- Importantly, deliver the rewards as soon as possible after your child uses the toilet to pee or poop. Don’t wait! We’ve found that quick delivery of the reward tends to speed skill acquisition.
-- And remember those visual supports. For example, you can incorporate a picture of the reward in your child’s toileting visual schedule. OR use a “First-Then” board to illustrate “First use the toilet, and then get your reward.”
-- In the early stages of training, reward each small success – even a small dribble of urine. These are important behaviors that you can build upon during subsequent bathroom trips.
5. Use rewards to communicate. Sometimes, rewards can help you communicate your expectations to your child. This is especially important for children who have difficulty understanding “if, then” rules.
-- For example, your child may not understand, “If you pee in the potty, you can have 5 minutes of iPad.” He may do better if you increase the opportunities for success and reward. How? Try the following:
---- On a day you are both at home, increase the fluids he drinks. This will give you more chances to take him to the bathroom for a successful pee. Reward each tinkle!
---- Look for patterns in when your child has accidents. It can help to write down the time and place of each accident for several days. You may start to see a pattern emerge. For example, you may find that he often urinates around 30 minutes after drinking a glass of water, milk or other beverage. Use this information to schedule his bathroom trips around times he seems most likely to pee.
---- Remember to make those rewards immediate and consistent. This increases the chances that your child makes the connection between peeing and receiving his reward.
6. Empower your child to communicate. It’s especially important to help children with limited verbal abilities to signal their need to use the toilet. Once your child is consistently using the toilet when you bring him to the bathroom, it’s time to teach him a simple way to tell you he needs “to go.”
-- Consider encouraging him to use a visual support such as a picture of a toilet. Consider clipping it to his belt loop or shirt button hole so he can easily point to it. Or, if your child uses an assisted communication device, you can incorporate a picture of a toilet that he can press to give you an audible cue.
-- Ideally, you want him to use these cues when he feels his bladder is full. It can help to slowly stretch out how often you take him to the bathroom unprompted. In other words, you need to give him the chance to recognize what a full bladder feels like – and then experience the relief of peeing in the toilet. As we all know, that relieved feeling can be its own “natural” reward for using the toilet.
-- As your child becomes increasingly attuned to when his bladder and bowel is full, he may begin to show more obvious signs of a full bladder. You may start to see an increase in rocking, holding oneself, more vocalizations or other signs that he’s ready for a trip to the bathroom.
-- Sometimes a child may simply look intently at you – or toward the bathroom – when he or she needs to go. It’s particularly helpful for parents, teachers and other caregivers to become sensitive to these “tells” and immediately encourage the child to use the chosen communication method. This can be with whatever method works best – e.g., handing you the toilet picture or pressing the toilet button on a speech device.
-- Definitely reward your child for any effort to communicate.
Seven toilet training tips that help nonverbal kids with autism
This article also contains some pictures that will add more meaning to this thread.
_________________
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Double Retired
Veteran
Joined: 31 Jul 2020
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,943
Location: U.S.A. (Mid-Atlantic)
20 Sep 2024, 8:54 pm
Sometimes when I look for answers I try the internet. Some of their advice is good and some bad. So I looked up a link on toilet training autistic children and this was one of the threads that showed up.
Now to our favorite toilet training strategies:
1. When it comes to communication: less is more! Use clear and simple pictures or visual prompts such as the visual support below from the Autism Speaks tool kit.
-- Use the visual prompt with simple and direct language to help your child understand what is expected. For example, say “Time for potty” instead of asking “Do you need to use the potty now?”
-- We’ve found it most effective when parents simultaneously present the verbal direction with the visual support while immediately guiding the child to the toilet with little or no additional discussion. Visual schedule for using the toilet
2. Don’t delay the underwear! Move your child into underwear as soon as possible. We realize that this seems an intimidating step for many parents. But we’ve found it’s really important. Let’s face it, modern diapers and pull-ups can be too good at whisking away the pee. As a result, your child may not even realize that he has urinated. Putting your child in underwear helps him associate accidents with the discomfort of wetness on his skin.
3. Don’t fuss over accidents. When your child does have an accident, minimize discussing, cajoling, pleading, teasing or other fussing that can have the unintended result of reinforcing the accident behavior. Instead, provide a brief reminder that you expect your child to use the toilet next time he needs to go. Then complete the cleanup with as little fanfare and discussion as possible. Save your attention for when your child is using – or attempting to use – the toilet.
4. Reward the desired behaviors. Identify some activities, toys or small treats that will motivate your child. Reserve these for rewarding your child’s toileting successes, and only for rewarding toileting success. Chances are your child will work harder at achieving success if he can’t get these items any other way.
-- Importantly, deliver the rewards as soon as possible after your child uses the toilet to pee or poop. Don’t wait! We’ve found that quick delivery of the reward tends to speed skill acquisition.
-- And remember those visual supports. For example, you can incorporate a picture of the reward in your child’s toileting visual schedule. OR use a “First-Then” board to illustrate “First use the toilet, and then get your reward.”
-- In the early stages of training, reward each small success – even a small dribble of urine. These are important behaviors that you can build upon during subsequent bathroom trips.
5. Use rewards to communicate. Sometimes, rewards can help you communicate your expectations to your child. This is especially important for children who have difficulty understanding “if, then” rules.
-- For example, your child may not understand, “If you pee in the potty, you can have 5 minutes of iPad.” He may do better if you increase the opportunities for success and reward. How? Try the following:
---- On a day you are both at home, increase the fluids he drinks. This will give you more chances to take him to the bathroom for a successful pee. Reward each tinkle!
---- Look for patterns in when your child has accidents. It can help to write down the time and place of each accident for several days. You may start to see a pattern emerge. For example, you may find that he often urinates around 30 minutes after drinking a glass of water, milk or other beverage. Use this information to schedule his bathroom trips around times he seems most likely to pee.
---- Remember to make those rewards immediate and consistent. This increases the chances that your child makes the connection between peeing and receiving his reward.
6. Empower your child to communicate. It’s especially important to help children with limited verbal abilities to signal their need to use the toilet. Once your child is consistently using the toilet when you bring him to the bathroom, it’s time to teach him a simple way to tell you he needs “to go.”
-- Consider encouraging him to use a visual support such as a picture of a toilet. Consider clipping it to his belt loop or shirt button hole so he can easily point to it. Or, if your child uses an assisted communication device, you can incorporate a picture of a toilet that he can press to give you an audible cue.
-- Ideally, you want him to use these cues when he feels his bladder is full. It can help to slowly stretch out how often you take him to the bathroom unprompted. In other words, you need to give him the chance to recognize what a full bladder feels like – and then experience the relief of peeing in the toilet. As we all know, that relieved feeling can be its own “natural” reward for using the toilet.
-- As your child becomes increasingly attuned to when his bladder and bowel is full, he may begin to show more obvious signs of a full bladder. You may start to see an increase in rocking, holding oneself, more vocalizations or other signs that he’s ready for a trip to the bathroom.
-- Sometimes a child may simply look intently at you – or toward the bathroom – when he or she needs to go. It’s particularly helpful for parents, teachers and other caregivers to become sensitive to these “tells” and immediately encourage the child to use the chosen communication method. This can be with whatever method works best – e.g., handing you the toilet picture or pressing the toilet button on a speech device.
-- Definitely reward your child for any effort to communicate.
Seven toilet training tips that help nonverbal kids with autism
This article also contains some pictures that will add more meaning to this thread.
I have been doing all that for a long time. What I do is every 60-90 minutes I got "toilet time!" and he does in fact sit on it happily. Still pees in the vent.
The underwear thing, that is a good point but unfortunately he wears nothing. He rips everything off, which is why he goes on the floor currently. Diapers would be so much easier to deal with.
I am going to keep trying and I know someday it will happen. I calculated that I have cleaned up about 3,000 poops on the floor over the past 5 years between the two older ones. The older one now is thankfully using a toilet but she ALSO will occasionally just go on the floor (both poop and pee). She knows better.
The worst part is my 6 year old son was potty trained for about 3 months and reverted.
I will just keep trying, thats all.
20 Sep 2024, 9:37 pm
I will give two answers. First the official answer I give to people in real life. Then, the one I say to myself in my head.
Official: "It was and continues to be a challenge."
Real answer: Quite honestly, I regretted my life choices after #2. When #3 arrived, she changed my life. #2 still poops and pees on the floor and he is 6. I put him on the toilet regularly but he just sits there. He prefers to pee into our vents apparently (which I am boarding up tomorrow). He poops on the floor.
I can't really explain it all quickly, but I really hated life. To some extent, I am still deeply depressed by them. I often wonder if it would have been best if I had not had kids. The first two did significant damage to our house. I would estimate that to repair the damage they did would cost at least $60,000-$75,000 USD. My fear is it would be more than that. If its more, basically my home equity is gone. I try not to dwell on it. They have a tendency to cause floods whenever they get access to a water source and destroy literally anything they touch - we are having to replace the drywall with wood walls because they are ripping holes in the wall.
But, #3 was attached to me from very early on, like almost instantly. We formed a bond, and it developed. I started to want to live and, I know this sounds horrible to my first two, but I started to think without the first two I wouldn't have #3. I was OK with drinking myself to an early death to be honest.
#3 is now 4 and she is also diagnosed autistic. However, she does talk but is significantly behind her age, she is 4. My wife says that she learned to talk to annoy me. She is VERY attached to me.
When she could crawl, she crawled over to me and got a habit of falling asleep in my arm as I played a computer game on my laptop. I thought "wow she seems to like me." Well, that kindof went out of control. She is now pretty much possessive of me. She does not like me talking to anyone else - even my wife (her mother!). If I talk to my wife, she will come over and make up some BS reason to get my attention. Her go to is to complain about being sick, but my favorite is she goes "daddy, my arm is broken." Or, she will say she is tired and wants to go to bed, she goes "Daddy, I'm TIRED!" and its like 2 hours after she woke up. She says that to get me to stop talking to someone else and try to put her to sleep (which would mean I spend time with only her).
It can be... stressful. She is whiny as hell to me. But, she is also my helper. She pretty much helps me clean whenever I clean anything, and if I put things away she helps me with that.
#4 is ALSO diagnosed autistic. So far, nonverbal. He is 2.5 years old at this time. But, he is a different personality than the older two. He is more joyous. He has a love for life I can't describe. He likes chaos too, but its a lot less than the first two. He's more of a prankster than a vandal like the first two.
#5 is a 1 yo boy, and - we say this with every kid so far - I do not think he is autistic. He is barely 1 and I've noticed he is already responding to requests. Like if we say "lets go" to leave a room he follows. The older two did not do that until much, much older. My 6 yo son is still difficult to get to do ANYTHING, he's on another planet.
#5 loves his older brother #4 and follows him around. #4 is annoyed with it but there are moments when he is sweet to him and allows him to hangout with him. We have seen #4 put a blanket on #5 when he is napping two times and he stops to adjust it to ensure his body is covered. We think they will be best buds so its adorable.
#6 will be a girl, so it will be a 3-3 split. 6 kids is the smallest # of kids you can have to have each kid have 2 brothers and 2 sisters.
Generally, I like to hangout with the girls. They are easier and less stressful at this point in time. If I want to go out of the house, I generally take the girls with me. #2, the older autistic boy, is extremely difficult to take out in public and we have 1-1 rule with him so that means one of us has to be with only him and no one else because he causes... problems. Flips out, runs off, etc.
Ok so just to be clear, all the kids are diagnosed? does that include #1? are you and your wife diagnosed?
I can't imagine what it must be like and apologise if anyone here is judging you (that is not their business).
Do you and your wife have extended family who can help? can you get government assistance for childcare and in-home care/transport?
I can relate to drinking, I have had periods of using alcohol to cope (and that's with one child with ASD) but I try my best to manage my consumption so that I can be around for my daughter (who is now 19). If there is anything positive I can say, is that you must have great project management skills having to manage 6 special needs kids, must be a lot of moving parts.
Wish you all the best and hope you, your wife and kids can live happy lives.
Canadian Freedom Lover
Sea Gull
Joined: 16 Dec 2022
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: Vancouver Canada
20 Sep 2024, 10:59 pm
I'm sorry if this question comes off as rude, but why did you decide to have more children after bringing two high needs autistic kids into this world? I imagine they are enough work as is.[/quote]
It doesn't come off as rude, it is rude and disgusting.
What if I told you I believe my son could be something someday? Maybe it takes more time but he is highly intelligent. I love him even if I hate cleaning up his poop daily.
We are pro natalists that believe in the fundamental worth of ALL human life.[/quote]
I agree that all human life has some inherent value. And hopefully all of you children become successful in whatever form that takes.
I just don't understand your decision to have so many children when you already had your hands full with the first two. I'm not judging you, I'm just curious that's all.
21 Sep 2024, 11:37 am
I'm sorry if this question comes off as rude, but why did you decide to have more children after bringing two high needs autistic kids into this world? I imagine they are enough work as is.
It doesn't come off as rude, it is rude and disgusting.
What if I told you I believe my son could be something someday? Maybe it takes more time but he is highly intelligent. I love him even if I hate cleaning up his poop daily.
We are pro natalists that believe in the fundamental worth of ALL human life.[/quote]
I agree that all human life has some inherent value. And hopefully all of you children become successful in whatever form that takes.
I just don't understand your decision to have so many children when you already had your hands full with the first two. I'm not judging you, I'm just curious that's all.[/quote]
That is fine but you must understand that what you are implying is "your other kids shouldn't have existed."
And people say that to us all the time, including close relatives whom we no longer speak.
My 6 year old son poops on the floor but he is also very sweet to his younger brothers and is a very good big brother. He is great with animals.
My only regret is not knowing more about it earlier and if I had, we would have bought a different house.
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