What does the phrase 'social skills' mean in 2024?

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My personal understanding of 'social skills' is pretty simple. It fits the following:

1) Having basic skills with reciprocity and mirroring where appropriate (ie. if someone's polite / amicable your mirror, if they're imperial you don't).

2) Saying things that are topical / on-point with the conversation.

3) Be aware of social and political sensitivities within reason - ie. don't use slurs, don't speak of people as if you're carefully avoiding slurs, don't get in knock-down drag-out political or philosophic debates, technically it's better if you don't touch philosophy, politics, religion, or music at all unless off in a very small or specialized side-conversation away from others.

4) Dress for occasions and know basic customs around them.


I'm coming to the opinion that these are deemed somehow insufficient in 2024 - ie. that it's easy to do all four of the above and still not be conforming to social standards sufficiently? I'm trying to figure out where exactly people are coming from so I can even figure out where the additional load is coming from.

Conformity is for sheep

Apparently so is being able to eat and finance your own lodging - hence the difficulty.

You seem to have a pretty good working description. I'm not sure what you think is missing from it.

I often worry that I'm missing 'Easily manipulated' or some similar thing that people try to rename as mandatory ('cool' or 'hip' are good example) and from there it heads out to constant covert power games. It's kind of liquid astroturf made of popularity contests in the room.

Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 02 Nov 2024, 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

I regard social skills as the ability to manipulate others, for good or bad.

I have modest social skills, enough to get by.

Some people like my boss have social skills to move mountains, they can get people to do all kinds of favors for them that I never would have dreamed were possible. They build up massive spreadsheets in their mind of favors they have done for others, and they look for ways to build up goodwill with others. They remember names and birthdays and other details about significant people in their network, and they have a vast network of all this data in their mind. You pass someone on the street, and the social person can tell you their name, their Mama, where they live and who they went out with.

I think society needs to understand that there's probably whole OCEAN five-factor profiles that would want nothing to do with even needing to think about the competition to manipulate as if it's a requirement for survival (to me that's Scott Alexander / Slate Star Codex's foraging rats in Mediations on Moloch) and they're deeply depressed if they're forced to bother because there's so much other meaningful stuff they'd rather focus on. Keep those people happy and guess what! They can make cool stuff and new discoveries! More stuff for human thriving! It's like there's somehow zero belief that we can have better lives if we pull together positively which then reinforces self-fulfilling prophecies. I get that there's real suffering out there, I get that marriages in late 20's early 30's have been precedents for civil wars in the past, we're in weird times in that respect and that's trickling down into how people see and treat each other (it's especially bad for anyone who can't balance out a few thousand dollar emergency bill and on top of that have the risk of kids, or alternately realize they could never afford them). Weak men are clearly creating hard times. It's the popularity of the raiding and mugging mentality that I don't get and outside of diagnosed or diagnosable mental illness it's morally unrelatable.

That seems to mirror the whole thing about social intelligence. I watch the instructional videos at work and it is like no s**t Sherlock, but then people get into networking and a host of other stuff and it seems like beyond basic nicities (I do you a favor you do me a favor) there is a whole strategy for all this that many of us are missing. Basically a participation prize for extroverts it seems like.

We have a cumulative problem. At least in my on situation if people don't like me it's like 'Cool - we're not each other's type' but it gets to then be a problem where so much of society cops an attitude on you immediately (like it's perceived status in body language) that you realize that even being fair and democratic, as far as I can tell, gets us eaten.

My problem with 'schmoozing' - people don't want it from me, that's why I don't do it. It's not that I can't imagine how, it's that it both feels gross (IMHO effaces integrity) but it's the idea that I'd have to live my life in that mindset which seems a bit sick in terms of almost trying to take people against their will or put them where you want to put them. I think of the old Ken Wilber Integral map of adult development and I remember hearing that 75% of people top out at concrete operational mode of reasoning. If that's the case I *really* don't want to try and conform to a ton of grabby expectations when I realize that it's based on a child-like mode.

When I say the above - if a coworker, friend, or family member needs help I help them no problem. If someone's carrying a ton of weight and I see I can help I do that. It's not that I don't do any trading off, it's just that I don't like having that turn into a social climbing game (really corrupting the spirit of generosity), that's the gross part.

You know I try to explain this on plebbit and people look at you like you are some anime dweeb because you notice people are not being genuine and that you are treating people like someone from an anime. I have never watched anime (not to bash it , just saying) and it just seems like even schmoozing is some weird concept , despite seeming basic. As an example I get along with my coworkers at my job , make them laugh, talk to my boss about intellectual topics, and it seems like that is schmoozing. I could go above and beyond and cultivate a relationship with people in other departments, but you would seem like a loser and try hard if that makes sense.

To expand this a bit, I tried to basically insinuate that I not hold tight to any relationship with the opposite sex and not give a crap (without saying what this is) and people seem to respect me more despite being more of an as*hole. I feel like this attitude of gaining freedom by breaking rules seeping into other areas of my life and it scares me but people act like I am making a rube Goldberg machine like in the toons. No Sherlock I am getting the desire to f**k people over, but I don't want to say that out loud, less I break some unspoken rule about being manipulative. Having said that I still have liars, thieves, etc. without someone trying to f**k me over. After that game on.

The more I think about it - when I think of what I mean by schmoozing it basically boils down to social climbing. Having pleasant exchanges with other people, talking things you find interesting, that's just being human in the positive sense. When I ask myself what falls outside of that it's deliberate climbing.

I'll add this - I don't know about you but talking to people of completely different cognitive profile, and especially people who are generally crabby, superficial, etc.. I don't feel like going and introducing myself because they're not my kind of people and it feels ick in both directions. Similarly when I got into the business world in my late 20's I rapidly came to the conclusion that hysteria is really rampant. I saw parts of contracts scratched out when someone who hadn't been told that auditors would be doing research threw a fit, the signor relented. Before that in my late teens I had one of the more socially unpleasant jobs boxing items for a crafts store and - I wasn't hillbilly enough so I had to be fired for nothing. I kind of came to the conclusion as well that the rules of polite society only shield you if people like your genes, gender, social class, whatever it is that makes them uncomfortable they'll impulsively try to take it out on you because I don't think they get the point of doing anything else.


I understand why I'm single - I'm really particular about meeting someone whose got a similarly large inner world and needs the same from another. For as little as I trust most people it would have to be deep mutual benefit of the kind that could easily bond us for life. Short of that it's like trying to push two positive magnets together even if they're interested in me but the deeper connection or potential for it can't be felt.

For the freeing yourself up bit - I would just say be careful how you frame that to yourself for the sake of not going down a dark path. Carl Jung has the concept of shadow work which is largely this - cleaning your psychic basement. There are also situations where when you realize life's not working out optimally and you find things that aren't serving you that you can throw out - if they're like training wheels getting in the way when you don't need them anymore great! That's the process of adult psychological development. For my own areas similar to what you're talking about, not screwing people but other things, I consider myself as having a software development sandbox in my head where I can seal it, give the outside of that sandbox an identity pitched toward containing what's in sandbox, and in that sandbox I can play with thoughts occasionally that would normally be well outside my moral compass. The point of that then is to catch up my own psychological development. I'm not sure whether or not you're trying to do something similar to that but the tool kits are definitely there in both Jungian psychology and western esotericism.

Full disclosure, I am just sort of scrolling around on here while I wait for a phone call, so if this was mentioned and I overlooked it while scanning, I apologize, but what is your reason or motivation for asking? That context might help people with the question of what was missing from the list.

Are you looking for more meaningful connection in your life? If so, then empathy and vulnerability need to be added to the list. If you are looking to get ahead in a corporate environment or, like, run for political office or something, then the answer may be totally different. And, so on.

It's a bucket that I feel like we need to be able to examine the contents of. I think at baseline, ie. the things I mentioned in my OP, are fine - ie. extending reciprocity and caring for the consciousness and quality of consciousness in others. It's the extra bells and whistles that seem like they could have a lot of questionable content baked in. The way it impacts me - I've got a clash of virtues between dignity / self-respect and the question of what am I willing to morally engage with if I'm able to understand it better and see that it has a firm basis. What worries me is that people tend to play the extra stuff really close to the vest and when it feels like things are taboo to discuss, especially areas that seem filled with chicanery, it sends up red flags and even makes me wonder how much of what happens in my life is autism and how much of it is just the bucket of crabs lashing at me for not jumping in and joining.

Honestly, I am so sorry, but I am not really hearing a clearly stated goal in that response, but am thinking maybe it has something to do with seeking authenticity and trying to understand how much of the reaction you get from others is related to a misreading of the situation or issues related to self awareness or skills (i.e. due to autism) as opposed to external issues with our current society (i.e. bucket of crabs)? Or, maybe it's just more of a philosophical thing.

Edit: I am guessing you communicate differently in person, but the way people write often reflects the way their minds work (have you ever read "The Language Instinct" by Pinker or anything linguistics-related by Chomsky?), so maybe there is some overlap between how you write and how you communicate verbally. Interestingly, the way you communicate in writing (in terms of structure, not word choice) reminds me of two of my coworkers who also have an accounting background. One is our CFO, so it's not a big deal, but the other is our policy director, where it can be problematic when she is writing formal policy directives or meeting with people. Like with a lot of other types of neurodiversity, although the way their minds work is an advantage in some situations, it does also seem to pose some challenges to their interactions with others when it comes to expression and being understood. I'm definitely not saying anyone needs to study transformational grammar or linguistics to enhance social communication, but since you are very cerebral, you may actually find it sort of interesting. If you do feel like enhancing the way you communicate would be beneficial, something like taking a journalism class if you can find a free one online would probably be more a more practical approach when it comes to being clearer and more concise.

Last edited by blueroses on 04 Nov 2024, 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

It's a big topic with a lot of corners but it's also something I don't see people drill into at the level I want to which is part of why I'm not asking for narrow specifics. I feel like I'm trying to dredge up one of these angles of human existence where if we could put more of the puzzle together we could kick a lot of garbage out of our social customs if we could identify the line clearly between reasonable and pernicious to outright harmful.

If I can give something more specific I'd just refocus the question on - if the four basics I mentioned in my OP aren't enough, what are the common things people would claim are minimal for (on average) successful interactions with the broader world on a reliable basis? That's the bucket I want to sort and examine.