Why should a police force employ convicted criminals?

Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 1:23 pm

The police force where I'm from - The Edmonton Police - has a number of members
in their ranks who have been convicted under the criminal code of Canada.
That's obviously a conflict of interest. There's a lot of issues in policing that most people have no idea about unless they follow it closely.
I'm of the belief that police officers who are caught drinking and driving should automatically be terminated from the police force.
There's a lot of 'rules for thee but not for me' within policing
Being against police corruption doesn't equate to being anti police. That's another thing that some don't understand.
Basically, the police have a lot of power and have some legislation in place that allows them almost full impunity.
It think it's about changing laws and getting politicians to take this more seriously.
The police are necessary in society but they shouldn't be above the law.
Also, there's a culture within the judicial system that protects police officers from being criminally prosecuted.
Some prosecutors will have spouses or be in an intimate relationship with a police officer.
Rarely does it seems police officers are criminally prosecuted. It's not acceptable. Everyone plays by the same rules whether you wear a badge or don't.
Finally, I am in favour of a national police misconduct database. This would be an effective way of monitoring police misconduct and ensuring all incidents are recorded.
It would ensure that police officers who resign to evade the disciplinary process cannot move jurisdictions and start again with a new police force. I think something along the lines of a 3 strikes (3 misconduct charges) and you're out is fair.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-police-officer-with-criminal-record-promoted-to-sergeant

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/edmonton-police-officer-disciplined-drunk-driving

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-police-chief-resigns

https://www.policemisconductdatabase.ca/



The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,852
Location: London

09 Jan 2025, 3:43 pm

It seems like you're slightly contradicting yourself - you're simultaneously saying that there are too many convicted criminals in the police, and that the police aren't prosecuted when they commit crimes.

I think it's good that, firstly, we recognise that some crimes shouldn't lead to you losing your job. People can make mistakes and still go on to be good at law enforcement. Indeed, the experience of being on "the other side" might make them more compassionate, or more insightful.

If someone commits a violent offence while serving as a police officer, that's probably disqualifying. And if you need to drive to be a police officer, then I think it's fair to say the same of people convicted of drink driving. But what about someone who does 35 in a 30, or who makes a mistake on their tax form? What about someone who was in a gang as a teenager but grew out of it, got a degree, and is now an upstanding member of society?

You're raising important points about corruption though, and also how "resign to end a disciplinary process" can cause problems when they try to rejoin another force.



123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 3:52 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
It seems like you're slightly contradicting yourself - you're simultaneously saying that there are too many convicted criminals in the police, and that the police aren't prosecuted when they commit crimes.

I think it's good that, firstly, we recognise that some crimes shouldn't lead to you losing your job. People can make mistakes and still go on to be good at law enforcement. Indeed, the experience of being on "the other side" might make them more compassionate, or more insightful.

If someone commits a violent offence while serving as a police officer, that's probably disqualifying. And if you need to drive to be a police officer, then I think it's fair to say the same of people convicted of drink driving. But what about someone who does 35 in a 30, or who makes a mistake on their tax form? What about someone who was in a gang as a teenager but grew out of it, got a degree, and is now an upstanding member of society?

You're raising important points about corruption though, and also how "resign to end a disciplinary process" can cause problems when they try to rejoin another force.


I'm not contradicting myself intentionally.

I'm stating facts. Some police are convicted of crimes and they work in law enforcement.
It's a conflict of interest. You can't get a job with the police force where I'm from if you have a criminal record.
Yet, if you commit a crime while a member of the force, you can stay on and be promoted?

Makes no sense.

An agency that enforces the law should under no circumstances employ convicted criminals. End of discussion.


Finally, as I said, often police can be charged with a crime and not prosecuted.



123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 3:54 pm

To your points - driving 35 in a 30 is not a criminal offence.
An honest mistake on a tax form is likely not a criminal offence.

Someone in a gang as a teenager may have a criminal record and that can have a lifelong implication.
They are still responsible for their actions as a teen.
If they changed their lives, good for them. If they have a criminal history it should disqualify them from law enforcement.



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,634
Location: Hell

09 Jan 2025, 4:32 pm

123autism wrote:
If they have a criminal history it should disqualify them from law enforcement.

I disagree. People can grow and change. I share similar views as The_Walrus in that having experience with “the other side” could provide one with insight and, perhaps, make them more compassionate overall. That’s something we need more of with law enforcement and in our prison system in the US.

With that being said, I think factors like the type of crime and how long it’s been since it was committed should be taken into account. IMO, certain types of crimes should bar one from working as a police officer (e.g. child abuse) but not all.


_________________
“Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.” — Satan and TwilightPrincess


123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 5:08 pm

Here's an example of a man who was kicked in the head
by a police officer and needed surgery on his skull.

The crown has refused to proceed with a criminal charge against the officer
and it has lead to public outcry.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/pacey-dumas-case-judicial-review



123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 5:11 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
123autism wrote:
If they have a criminal history it should disqualify them from law enforcement.

I disagree. People can grow and change. I share similar views as The_Walrus in that having experience with “the other side” could provide one with insight and, perhaps, make them more compassionate overall. That’s something we need more of with law enforcement and in our prison system in the US.

With that being said, I think factors like the type of crime and how long it’s been since it was committed should be taken into account. IMO, certain types of crimes should bar one from working as a police officer (e.g. child abuse) but not all.


I agree that compassion is needed.

Yet you have to consider the fact a police force will disqualify one from employment if they have a criminal record
while employing those who do. It's a contradiction. Rules for thee but not for me.

Why should someone get to enforce the law on someone else when they have a criminal history? It's laughable.



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,634
Location: Hell

09 Jan 2025, 5:16 pm

^ There’s nothing laughable about it. We all make mistakes. People are especially prone to making stupid mistakes when they are young - like getting DUIs. It doesn’t mean they can’t go on to become great police officers or whatever else.


_________________
“Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.” — Satan and TwilightPrincess


123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 5:37 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
^ There’s nothing laughable about it. We all make mistakes. People are especially prone to making stupid mistakes when they are young - like getting DUIs. It doesn’t mean they can’t go on to become great police officers or whatever else.


It sounds like you're trying to minimize how serious a DUI is.
Driving drunk is not only careless, it threatens the lives of everyone on the road.

It's more than a stupid mistake.

Someone with a DUI does not belong in law enforcement.



TwilightPrincess
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 29,634
Location: Hell

09 Jan 2025, 5:42 pm

I’m not trying to minimize it at all, but it is true that young people do make stupid mistakes. It doesn’t mean they are bad people. There’s too much demonization going on towards people who have criminal records.

Receiving a DUI while young shouldn’t bar a person from becoming a decent police officer if they have the other necessary qualifications for the job and aren’t still engaging in the behavior. I think such experience could even make one a better police officer.

IMO, a nuanced approach to this topic is warranted.


_________________
“Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.” — Satan and TwilightPrincess


Gentleman Argentum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2019
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,000
Location: State of Euphoria

09 Jan 2025, 6:41 pm

123autism wrote:
The police force where I'm from - The Edmonton Police - has a number of members
in their ranks who have been convicted under the criminal code of Canada.
That's obviously a conflict of interest. There's a lot of issues in policing that most people have no idea about unless they follow it closely.
I'm of the belief that police officers who are caught drinking and driving should automatically be terminated from the police force.
There's a lot of 'rules for thee but not for me' within policing
Being against police corruption doesn't equate to being anti police. That's another thing that some don't understand.
Basically, the police have a lot of power and have some legislation in place that allows them almost full impunity.
It think it's about changing laws and getting politicians to take this more seriously.
The police are necessary in society but they shouldn't be above the law.
Also, there's a culture within the judicial system that protects police officers from being criminally prosecuted.
Some prosecutors will have spouses or be in an intimate relationship with a police officer.
Rarely does it seems police officers are criminally prosecuted. It's not acceptable. Everyone plays by the same rules whether you wear a badge or don't.
Finally, I am in favour of a national police misconduct database. This would be an effective way of monitoring police misconduct and ensuring all incidents are recorded.
It would ensure that police officers who resign to evade the disciplinary process cannot move jurisdictions and start again with a new police force. I think something along the lines of a 3 strikes (3 misconduct charges) and you're out is fair.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-police-officer-with-criminal-record-promoted-to-sergeant

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/edmonton-police-officer-disciplined-drunk-driving

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-police-chief-resigns

https://www.policemisconductdatabase.ca/


It really depends on the crime. Felonies are a disqualifier, other crimes, not so.

Our police are drug-tested, but drug use in the past is not a disqualifier.

Someone who has served time in Da Joint probably should not be on the force.

It is OK for prison inmates to be working at the police department however. I think it is important to let prison inmates work in society if they want to and give them reduced sentence and better food in exchange. They might as well make their time useful and beneficial to society as opposed to vegetating and plotting their next crime. Getting into the habit of working is also therapeutic for them and helps to rehabilitate them.


_________________
My magical motto is Animus facit nobilem. I like to read fantasy and weird fiction. Just a few of my favorite online things: music, chess, and dungeon crawl stone soup.


Aspinator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,391
Location: AspinatorLand

09 Jan 2025, 7:08 pm

You say one should be disqualified from being a policeman if you are convicted of a felony I guess being a policeman has more stringent requirements in Canada than being POTUS



123autism
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 13 Oct 2024
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 218

09 Jan 2025, 8:52 pm



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,090
Location: Houston, Texas

Yesterday, 12:35 am

Recent years have shown that an intense hatred for non-whites is the only prerequisite that matters for many LEOs.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!


Velorum
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2020
Age: 65
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,339
Location: UK

Yesterday, 9:49 am

Interesting topic.

There are two strands to this for me. Eligibility to join the police if the person has a criminal record and what the consequences are of an officer committing an offence whilst serving.

I am guessing that the requirements for both of these differ from country to country and change over time.

There was a time here in the UK when a record of criminal conviction of any kind would debar an individual from applying to join the police. However, now it is possible to join if there is a criminal record dependant upon the age and nature of the offence. Each case is considered on its own merits. I think that that this is based upon the fact that many people mature and change so the factors that led them to wrong doing may no longer be there. For example the 17 year old who has a conviction for criminal damage who applies to join aged 28 - they would be given consideration.

Serious offences including violence, sexual assault etc would be an immediate disqualifier of course.

There have been times here in the UK where the screening system has failed and individuals who have been convicted of serious offences have succeeded in joining the police by them not disclosing this and pre-employment screening not picking this up. One of the issues here is that there is no national police service in the UK only regional ones that sometimes are very poor at communicating with each other. Their computerised data bases are often not linked or compatible with each other. A little like our NHS has become due to creeping privatisation - but thats another topic!


_________________
Diagnosed: ASD, hEDS, MCAS, ARFID
Retired specialist neurodevelopmental clinician
Member of Autistic & LGBTQ+ communities in South West UK
Trustee at Cornwall Pride charity & Coordinator at Kernow Neurodivergent Artists network