Your definition of non-verbal...and our kids...his chances..

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My son has delayed speech...some people seem to call him "non-verbal" because he can by no means communicate at the level he should be able to...ie. He's 6 and if you ask him where he lives, he doesn't know or can't answer...However, he can say, "I need...", "I want..." among some other things...most of which are pretty basic...but his "conversations" are not very lengthy...or even always make alot of sense...

So, do you consider this "non-verbal" or not?

Also, what are the odds (and I know everyone's different...hmmm) that he'll actually be able to communicate? I feel so lost sometimes worried sick that he won't ever learn to really talk or communicate fully with people...but everyone around me sees him "talking", although again, most of it is singing, very small talk such as hi, etc...and they tell me that he'll be fine...

Sorry, a rough day today...also, to top it all off I'm about to kick my husband's behind because I am constantly trying to TALK to my son and my husband is such a quiet person, that he'll just plop in front of the TV and not say a word for hours...I feel like he is harming our kiddo by not taking every opportunity to talk to him...

1)nonverbal-not using speech
a)your son sounds like has "significant speech delay" but he's not nonverbal. If he can tell you his important needs and wants, then he is communicating. I will say, and you may not like this, speech is overrated. We are biased towards speech because that's what's "normal", that's how we are judged and that's how we get along. But there are other forms of communication and your son will benefit if you are open to those avenues.

There is sign language, hand gestures, cartooning, written language, keyboarding (google "alphasmart"). Using these will not stunt his speech, regardless of what anyone says. In fact, they may enrich his speech. But your priority should be to keep the communication flowing in any form.

Frankly, I think one parent talking "at every opportunity" is enough. Complimentary parenting styles are really good and I'm sure your husband has skills you don't have. Don't begrudge him if he doesn't do exactly what you do. Unless there is more to the story, it just sounds like you take care of the speech-modelling.

I know seeing your son operate differently may be scary, but it sounds like he'll be okay.

I just wanted to say that I know what you mean about your son either not knowing or not wanting to answer. My husband and son both have delayed response times when asked questions. I used to think that my son didn't understand that he was supposed to answer a question, because he rarely responded. I thought that my husband didn't care to listen to what I was saying. When my son's sensory input is regulated (bouncing, deep pressure, etc.), he is able to answer questions effortlessly. Our dev ped showed us this in her office on our first visit.

I am taking a class on autism/aspergers, and it says that many people on the spectrum have problems with receptive language, so they need extra time to process the question before they can answer. Also, they have a problem shifting attention from one topic to the next, so if you ask them about something they aren't thinking about, it also delays the response. Plus, if there are external distractions like other noises or visual input, it will delay the response even more. Basically, they said that the best thing to do is to wait at least a full 10 seconds after asking a question. Otherwise, the thought process will be interrupted even more.

I don't know if this has anything to do with your post, but I just thought I would share.

Well thats not true, I work with non-verbal autistic children who seem like your son, and are labelled non-verbal. In a way he does sound more delayed rather then non-verbal though, but I for one thought non-verbal meant nooo speaking at all. I was wrong, it can mean knowing a lot of words, like bye, hi, hello, or saying incorrect sentences like, me happy bed now, thats non-verbal actually. For example I worked with an severely autistic 3 yr old girl who didn't talk like 3 yrs are suppose to but whenever she wanted me to leave, she pushed me away and said bye, or she would try to sing, hum some of the tunes of a song, if i pointed to banana she would say banana, or pointed to other things she would answer me. If I asked her want to go outside, she would reply with "Outside!", Or Me outside, bike? Refering to outside is where she can bike, and thats what outside meant to her. Or she would say Bathroom, now, go, potty.. She was non-verbal autistic! So non-verbal can mean they can communicate verbally but not the way their suppose to, maybe one worders, or maybe mixed up sentences. Non-verbal can also mean no language at all too! I work with sooo many non-verbal NT and Autistic children, that its funny, how you can meet a kid who can't even say the word hi, be non-verbal, but meet a kid who can tell you how their feeling, what their doing, where they are, all mixed up and maybe in one worders and still be non-verbal, which is weird!

Anyways If your worried about your son not being able to communicate his thoughts, have you ever tried sign language? I teach sign language to some of the non-verbal children now, its like they know what they want to say, but their mouth doesn't work with the brain, its wierd. I was non-verbal growing up too, didn't really start speaking in correct sentences until after the age of 8, everything was mixed up and didn't come out as it was suppose to do, I had the verbal skills of a 3 year old that time . Anyways their are so many signing websites out there like http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro that can help you learn some signs, thats a site I use to help expand my vocab in signing.

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Being Normal Is Vastly Overrated

I am by no means an expert, but it seems as if I have read about a number of people who, like your son, were somewhat delayed in their language, until six or seven or eight years of age, but once they did begin talking they were fine.

Our son was delayed in his acquisition of words -- he was fairly on target until age 3, and then he just slowed way down in acquiring words. He was diagnosed at just before age 5, and so then we began to work with him a lot. He had the typical ASD pronoun reversal type problems. He is now 11 and absolutely fine.

It would seem to me that there are times when children on the spectrum don't acquire all of their speech until a much later date -- but they do eventually catch up.

Kris

As always, thanks so much for your input...Even KimJ, I truly appreciate what you stated as well. I go from being ok, to freaking out when I have so many people around me that have their kids in therapy for 40+ hours a week...

Actually, it's pretty obvious that it's ME that my child is like...actually, no doubt...With that said, I understand many of his differences and work with him, etc...but when it comes to speech, then I freak a bit because I did not really have a problem with that...so I don't really know how to handle that aspect.

Thanks for the suggestion of sign language...actually, I really want to give that a try and have been trying to see if I can find a good program/tool...He had one sign language video once and the day after he watched it he had already learned a few signs...so, I think that will help him as well. I'm reallly not hung up too much on other people understanding him...I get alot of input about his "handwriting" and how it has to be nice and neat, and I ignore them...geez! I don't know about your jobs, but my job requires very little handwriting...most is done in a computer anyway...so, I'm not hung up on that...again, I had that same issue, so I can see how it might or might not affect him and have ideas as to how to deal with it, etc...but the speech gets me.

Sadly, my husband is NT and I'm definitely the Aspie/HFA, not sure which...so it's harder for me to come up with things to say to my kiddo...my imagination when it comes to words is not great...so I hoped my husband who is better at it (he's in sales...haha) would do more...but, amazingly enough, he's actually a very quiet person.

Anyway, thanks again for all the suggestions...and of course, sharing your experiences with me once again.

You're probably defining "imagination" by NT standards, even though you're Aspie. I think practicing speech with scripts is just fine. I used to play "Brady Bunch" with my dolls, I'd just recite an episode. I remember when my son was in First Steps (speech therapy) and the lady was telling me to encourage pretend play. I was at a loss because I didn't "pretend".
5 years later, it's very obvious that my son has a great imagination, it's just not like NT imagination.

I have never believed in 40 hour week therapies, but the peer pressure is intense. Other parents have a way to make you feel like dead beat parent.

KimJ, you are too funny! Actually, the therapist tells me to do that same "role playing" or "playing with dolls type thing" she does at home with him at our house, but I keep telling her that I couldn't do it when I was young and I STILL can't do it...hehe...I have a great imagination for all kinds of stuff...planning parties, coming up with solutions to problems at work, etc...but when it comes to "playing dolls and pretending", my mind shuts down...hehe...

When I was little I still remember my neighbors telling me as we played Barbie "say something, anything..." and my response was always "I don't know what to say..."...which of course extended itselt to when we "played school" and I wouldn't raise my hand or ask questions and they would complain...haha...So, yes, you are correct in that my definition of imagination is NT standards, and although I do believe my kiddo has a great imagination, he's stuck when it comes to that "role playing", but hey, so am I...I actually asked the teacher if she knew where I could get some "scripts" to read to him...haha

Thanks again!

My brother. sister and son are very, very smart adults on the spectrum. They have good vocabularies now but none of them talked before the age of five.

My daughter is a non verbal classically autistic person. She barely speaks and uses sign language to help.

My other sister, other son and I were unusually early talkers. All similar genes. Language is a strange thing.

Non-verbal means not saying ANY words. If the person can say even two or three words, they are speech delayed. Hope this clears things up.

[quote="laplantain"]I just wanted to say that I know what you mean about your son either not knowing or not wanting to answer. My husband and son both have delayed response times when asked questions. I used to think that my son didn't understand that he was supposed to answer a question, because he rarely responded. I thought that my husband didn't care to listen to what I was saying. When my son's sensory input is regulated (bouncing, deep pressure, etc.), he is able to answer questions effortlessly. Our dev ped showed us this in her office on our first visit.

I am taking a class on autism/aspergers, and it says that many people on the spectrum have problems with receptive language, so they need extra time to process the question before they can answer. Also, they have a problem shifting attention from one topic to the next, so if you ask them about something they aren't thinking about, it also delays the response. Plus, if there are external distractions like other noises or visual input, it will delay the response even more. Basically, they said that the best thing to do is to wait at least a full 10 seconds after asking a question. Otherwise, the thought process will be interrupted even more.

I have the same issue with my 3.5 year old J-- he will just give a blank stare if asked a question. He can answer a yes/no/okay, or make a choice between 2 things....like if you said "J- do you want some eggs?" he would say "YES!" but if you say "J, what did you have for breakfast?" he will just continue on with whatever he was thinking/talking about, and sometimes I have to ask the same questio over and over again, modifying it until he can answer. I will try waiting a little longer and see if this helps.

back on topic--

my husband is the SAME WAY! he and James would be happy as clams if I would let them sit in front of the TV not talking for hours, but the TV is limited in my house mostly b/c if DS watches too much he just repeats lines from shows and commercials all day long....but j would be content also to play with toys and books by himself for hours without talking to anyone else but himself. I encourage my hubbie to "play" with and talk to j more, but I think he doesn't know what to say/do sometimes.

I agree with the other posters that it does not sound like he is non verbal, just delayed---but even my son, who is very high functioning normally chooses often to be "non verbal" around certain people or places. It is weird how offended people get if he doesn't choose to talk to them. language is indeed a strange beast, and it is amazing how different all these kids learn and evolve with it. Maybe sign language would interest him, it is worth a shot...I could never get James interested in it enought o get anywhere with it. It is frustrating to know they have the words in them and just can't get them out.

Kate

Hmm, I don't know if this applies to your son but I'm Aspie and for as far back as I remember I had so much going on "upstairs", it was always difficult to know what words to say. That's why I'm much more fluent in writing than speaking.

It's very common for aspie children to imitate TV characters (actually ANY children - but more so the aspies). It's really not such a bad thing but sitting in front of a telly all day isn't healthy for other reasons eg. it stunts imagination (especially given the abysmal standard of most shows - I would make an exception with Discovery and History channel) and means they aren't getting much exercise.

Non Verbal Learning Disabilty or NLD does not mean a child can't speak words. My son was DX w/ NLD and he said complete sentences at 14 months old. By the time he was two he sounded like a little miniature professor. The Non Verbal is referencing his inability to read "Non Verbal" facial clues. Like being able to see a suprized look on a persons face or being able to see when others are sad or mad. That is what I have always been told NLD was. Not that someone was not talking. Have I always been wrong all these years or what?

Most of those with autistic disorder improve the older they get; it's a delay in verbal development (reading, writing and speaking).

When he utters his first sentence, I assume it'll be grammatically incorrect; speech therapy is the best "treatment" for those with autistic disorder.

I'm a product of a patient mother and speech therapy.

Hi all, I intended to lurk and read for a while, but this thread is close to home. We have 3 autistic kids and I suspect I would be diagnosed if my childhood self time-warped to the present. Anyway, I am very encouraged to read age1600's post, as well as others here. My 9-year-old was recently re-evaluated for speech services and has the language of a 5 year old on average, younger in some areas. He has been in speech therapy for nearly 7 years now. Anyway, I just wanted you to know how gratifying it is to read these very articulate posts here from people who had significant speech delays. My youngest also has speech delays, though the age disparity is not as pronounced.

I suppose at age 3 my son might have been considered non-verbal. He made only two sounds and produced only the word "mama." So I don't think "non-verbal" is a permanent label. I am hoping that "speech delayed" isn't a permanent label either, and the posts here give me more reason to sustain that hope.