Monogamy is a bad system to Humans

Page 1 of 10 [ 154 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

LePetitPrince
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,464

16 Jan 2008, 6:31 pm

I think this thread should be in the science thread but since it talks about relations, and since this section has much more traffic then here we go:

From a pure scientific perspective,Monogamy is a bad system for the future generations of Humans. Monogamous might be a important factor for the increase of the inherited genetic diseases/disorders among the human population, why? It's simple , because Monogamy system is giving the opportunity and the right for every damn individual to get married and to have children, whether this individual has good genes or totally messed up genes. Today, almost everyone wants to marry , most men have the chance to have children and to get married , even the dwarfs and the inborn physically handicapped have the opportunity to get married and to have children = a better change to transmit bad genes from one generation to another = increase of # of physically handicapped babies = bad evolution in the long term!

Monogamy has suppressed the important evolutionary role that the female posses: The natural selection.
Female humans,like most primate species, are naturally the main controllers of the natural selection. The females are the ones who supposed to pick the best male in a group (=best genes for future children).
With the silly monogamous system, a lot of women are obliged to pick an unhealthy man as a mate since the gender ratio is almost 1:1 . Men and women are being brainwashed by silly religious ideas and by silly romantic ideas about 1women-1man-forever love s**t which make us hard to accept Polygamy.

The best reproduction system of the future of human's quality is an organized Polygamy :
-Only healthiest men have the right to have babies and women can only marry one of these alpha men. Each Alpha can breed with specified large number of womens.
- Alpha and beta females have the right to breed
-The very omega/unhealthy females have no right to breed
-The beta/omega males have no right to breed.

But then children would lack protection with 1 parent only and If men and women insist to live a "1woman-1man-forever family s**t life" that would make problems , there's a solution for that :
the best solution is the 'social and biological fathers' system , it's a biologically-polygamous system and it's socially-monogamous system at the same time.

Like most species of birds, only alphas can breed with the females but every male(including betas and omegas) can be a social father. An omega/beta male bird picks a female as a life mate to raise her babies with her despite the fact that he's not the biological father of her babies but the babies would gain the protection of 2 parents instead of 1! This is the smartest reproduction system : Best sperm win + Best genes transmitted+ family life (security).

Humans can do that too , we can allow only the alpha males among us to spread their spermas among the married women and their husbands would be the social fathers (betas/omega and even alphas) who would provide the necessary security and protection for the future children but an omega or beta must NOT be allowed to have children with her wife (better to infertile them Lol).

As for the STDs risk's spread , this can be easily controlled if the spemas of Alphas are well-checked in the sperm banks.

With this system , we would assure that the best set of genes among males would be transmitted to the next generation hence better offspring , healthier humans for the future, less probability of genetic diseases and we would assure the necessary protection and father's love for children and every1 would get the necessary affection and sexual life.

Crazy idea I know , but these are just thoughts :P



Last edited by LePetitPrince on 23 Jan 2008, 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Basshead
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 513

16 Jan 2008, 6:40 pm

This video has loads of profanity.


_________________
PM me when the revolution comes.

I'm a hypochondriac. Please don't kill me.


ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

16 Jan 2008, 6:46 pm

This is just disguised eugenics...

Image



pooftis
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Gender: Female
Posts: 350
Location: San Marcos, CA

16 Jan 2008, 6:46 pm

wow....no thanks.


_________________
I hate hearing, "you don't seem autistic/aspie". I have a nagging suspicion most people have no idea what autistic or aspie "seem" like in the first place...


merr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 515

16 Jan 2008, 7:04 pm

Interesting arguments as I've never seen a male say females are the ones with should do the selecting. I've never heard a woman say that either.

But all of this just has me thinking...what are "good genes"? Isn't that only relational to what a certain society sees fit as good and attractive?

Are good genes only found in attractive people? What if these people are also dumb?

What if a person is attractive and smart, yet has poor physical or athletic ability?

What if a person has little history of familial diseases and is very athletic but is unattractive in the conventional sense?

Are good genes blue eyes or brown eyes? Dark skin or pale skin? History of cancer of history of heart disease? Autistic traits or no autistic traits?

Maybe romantic love doesn't sound very scientific, but it doesnt place rules and regulations at the societal level for choosing a mate.

You choose a mate because she is pretty, or smart, or funny. But it doesn't mean everyone should choose a mate based on those specific reasons.

The problem with eugenics or selective evolution is that it places societal stanrads on people that are impossible to attain to.

Hitler's theory of the ubermensch or Aryan superiority also meant sterilizing (or not allowing them to mate) those with DEPRESSION for godssakes. The problem I have with this is a depressive parent can give birth to a perfectly fine child (and vice versa) and many great people struggled with bouts of depression. How can we say they cannot mate? We have no idea how their children will be.

And we have no right to enforce what we think is good onto the mating practices of others on the individual level.

Monogamy is fine with me. Who wants several kids form several different men? I can't just say that this is a scientific matter only. In todays' society, that creates too many problems for too many women and their children. Although you can do just fine as a single parent, it may still be a little difficult as society is structured for a single family. Thus, you cant take care of a child without help from someone. If a highly sought after man had 10 kids spread out all over the country, how's he keeping track of them? How's he spending time with them? He'd have to pay child support, and it all woudln't be pretty.

Monogamy just makes things easier.



SapphoWoman
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 387
Location: South Florida

16 Jan 2008, 7:22 pm

I think anyone should be "allowed" to breed.



skrimpy
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 32

16 Jan 2008, 8:30 pm

Have you read Louis Lowery's The Giver? Maybe you should see what it's like when a society breeds children in special nurseries for strong genetics and then places them into stable "care families" of one man, one woman.



TheMidnightJudge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,669
Location: New England

16 Jan 2008, 8:43 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
This is just disguised eugenics...

Image


It isn't even disguised...it's shameless.

There is a REASON humans are smarter than animals. We are supposed to come together as a society for the common good. That is the ONLY thing that makes us better than animals. The fact that we resist our instincts. Instincts tell us to act in destructive ways sometimes, but do we act upon these instincts? No, because society has taught us better.

This DISGUSTS me. And you know, as long as AS is a "disability", eugenetics will ultimately eliminate us too.
Respect life.



ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

16 Jan 2008, 9:39 pm

TheMidnightJudge wrote:
This DISGUSTS me. And you know, as long as AS is a "disability", eugenetics will ultimately eliminate us too.
Respect life.


I'll just leave my signature quote (which I usually forget to put up) do the talking...



riverotter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 970
Location: the frosty midwest

16 Jan 2008, 10:01 pm

Huh. I see the results of what you describe. You know, females with several children by different fathers. I don't see that it improves the gene pool. At. All.



twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

16 Jan 2008, 10:42 pm

TheMidnightJudge wrote:
It isn't even disguised...it's shameless.

There is a REASON humans are smarter than animals.

Because it was advantageous. Any teleologies beyond this are superfluous.

Quote:
We are supposed to come together as a society for the common good.

Herd think. If we were to come together for the common good we would all lay down our bodies for a future utopia. Just as the OP has proposed.

Quote:
This DISGUSTS me.

A typical response conditioned in those who are to serve society.

Quote:
And you know, as long as AS is a "disability", eugenetics will ultimately eliminate us too.

This is a possibility.

Quote:
Respect life.

Eugenics does respect life. Just not the propogation thereof. ;)
merr wrote:
But all of this just has me thinking...what are "good genes"? Isn't that only relational to what a certain society sees fit as good and attractive?

As are all valuations embodied in hierarchical rules, including the reproductive privileges of the society's constituents.

merr wrote:
Hitler's theory of the ubermensch or Aryan superiority also meant sterilizing (or not allowing them to mate) those with DEPRESSION for godssakes. The problem I have with this is a depressive parent can give birth to a perfectly fine child (and vice versa) and many great people struggled with bouts of depression. How can we say they cannot mate? We have no idea how their children will be.

Yes, but in a eugenic system we would treat the child in terms of the probabilities of the outcome. Sometimes it simply isn't necessary to take the risk.
Aside from that I do not approve of the use of a reductio ad Hitlerum. :?

The reactions highlight part of the reason why monogamy is such a dominant system for humans: it promotes social harmony, pacifies the lower class males.

Many counterarguments to eugenics are extremely clunky. "Who is to decide what are good characteristics?" Well, who has decided a free for all is desirable?
"People have a right to reproduce." *snort* We may curb the rights of people when they interfere with society at every turn, but not the right to force their unworthy progeny on the next generation? How does someone need the permission of the government to drive a car, or the permission of his town to use his own land for his own designs, but not need it for such a superhuman task as creating life?

*This does not necessarily represent my views, before you attempt any ad hominems now or in the future.
Don't say I never did anything for you, LePetitPrince ;)


_________________
* here for the nachos.


ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

17 Jan 2008, 12:11 am

twoshots wrote:
*This does not necessarily represent my views, before you attempt any ad hominems now or in the future.


You suck... :P



LePetitPrince
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,464

17 Jan 2008, 3:25 am

riverotter wrote:
Huh. I see the results of what you describe. You know, females with several children by different fathers. I don't see that it improves the gene pool. At. All.


You are confused, I didn't say the same female would have children by different fathers , women are not cats , I said X number of women would have children from a same alpha male. Thy don't need to have sex with the alpha male either , it could be done artificially . Each women can marry her love of life who's gonna be the social father of her children but she is not allowed to have children from him.


Quote:
There is a REASON humans are smarter than animals. We are supposed to come together as a society for the common good. That is the ONLY thing that makes us better than animals. The fact that we resist our instincts. Instincts tell us to act in destructive ways sometimes, but do we act upon these instincts? No, because society has taught us better


Nothing is smarter than the Nature rules , yet humans with their stupid religious beliefs , are opposing the natural rules. Opposing nature is a destructive process in the long term.
Humans are smarter? Maybe. but not when it comes to the reproduction system.



LePetitPrince
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,464

17 Jan 2008, 4:41 am

merr wrote:
Interesting arguments as I've never seen a male say females are the ones with should do the selecting. I've never heard a woman say that either.

But all of this just has me thinking...what are "good genes"? Isn't that only relational to what a certain society sees fit as good and attractive?

Are good genes only found in attractive people? What if these people are also dumb?

What if a person is attractive and smart, yet has poor physical or athletic ability?

What if a person has little history of familial diseases and is very athletic but is unattractive in the conventional sense?

Are good genes blue eyes or brown eyes? Dark skin or pale skin? History of cancer of history of heart disease? Autistic traits or no autistic traits?

Maybe romantic love doesn't sound very scientific, but it doesnt place rules and regulations at the societal level for choosing a mate.

You choose a mate because she is pretty, or smart, or funny. But it doesn't mean everyone should choose a mate based on those specific reasons.

The problem with eugenics or selective evolution is that it places societal stanrads on people that are impossible to attain to.

Hitler's theory of the ubermensch or Aryan superiority also meant sterilizing (or not allowing them to mate) those with DEPRESSION for godssakes. The problem I have with this is a depressive parent can give birth to a perfectly fine child (and vice versa) and many great people struggled with bouts of depression. How can we say they cannot mate? We have no idea how their children will be.

And we have no right to enforce what we think is good onto the mating practices of others on the individual level.

Monogamy is fine with me. Who wants several kids form several different men? I can't just say that this is a scientific matter only. In todays' society, that creates too many problems for too many women and their children. Although you can do just fine as a single parent, it may still be a little difficult as society is structured for a single family. Thus, you cant take care of a child without help from someone. If a highly sought after man had 10 kids spread out all over the country, how's he keeping track of them? How's he spending time with them? He'd have to pay child support, and it all woudln't be pretty.

Monogamy just makes things easier.



Everything can be scientifically measured and categorized.



Aspie_Chav
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,931
Location: Croydon

17 Jan 2008, 9:31 am

Rules of monogamy do not suppress the rules of mother nature. You are wrong, not everyone can get married, especially of they are not high enough up the social pecking order.

The rules of monogamy was created through Mother Nature, and is implanted through various religions. So it has to be a successful system.

Actually you are very wrong now I think of it. Monogamy enforces the rules of Mother Nature. If the rules of Monogamy was enforced like in old Christian days, I would have been a virgin, because I am unable to get married. Fortunately, because of the relaxed rules I had sex with 5 different woman in my life.

[quote]Image
FOR GOODNESS SAKE COME UP WITH SOMETHING SCIENTIFIC!! !



sarahstilettos
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Sep 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 847

17 Jan 2008, 9:32 am

Human beings in developed countries are in a very lucky position in that we do not need uber-healthy, physically perfect, (in terms of health, I mean, not looks) to be our absolute, all consuming priority. We have a society that can provide support to those who have health problems. This is a great advantage to us since some of the people we support may go on to greatly advance our thinking and technology.

We don't NEED to adopt the measures you suggest, hence we are free to be as monogamous or as polygamous as we see fit, provided that is that someone will have us. A lot of people find that long term, monogamous relationships bring them happiness. In our modern world, they are able to experience this happiness. Hooray!