Page 1 of 1 [ 11 posts ] 

paolo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,175
Location: Italy

21 Mar 2008, 2:22 pm

A 22-year-old man with Asperger syndrome who stabbed a high school student to death and seriously injured another student was sentenced to 26 years behind bars on Friday in Japan.
Lawyers for the defendant had argued that he had withdrawn himself from society from his third year of junior high school, and that he was mentally unstable at the time of the killing. A psychiatric evaluation used in court said that he had Asperger syndrome. It said that hearing the group of students laughing revived memories of experiences in which he was teased at junior high school, prompting him to attack.Prosecutors had demanded life imprisonment.

Here one has to state (liturgically) that Asperger or no other reason justifies stabbing people to death, but where responsibility for one’s own actions starts and where does it end? And is there a middle ground of “diminished” responsibility?. I doubt it. Generally both social environment and genetic “miswiring” undermine the bases of penal accountability. The second (genetic miswiring) much more than the first. Moreover it’s very probable that in committed crimes you have a combination of the two factors.


_________________
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better.
--Samuel Beckett


merrymadscientist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 533
Location: UK

21 Mar 2008, 3:28 pm

I am a determinist (philosophically speaking) and I think that every choice someone makes is determined by their genetics and previous experience. I dont think that this guy could have done any differently given his circumstances. However, that doesnt mean that I think it is right, nor that he shouldnt be punished. Is diminished responsibility due to 'psychiatric illness' really a better road to go down? It just means serving your sentence in a psychiatric hospital instead of a prison doesnt it (where in fact they can force you to take medications etc so it could be considered worse). However, since AS is not a psychiatric condition with a 'cure' then I dont know whether he should be considered non responsible - its not as though he can be 'cured' so that he wont do such a thing again. Yes, there are reasons behind why he did it, but there are reasons behind all criminal's crimes, many having equally justifiable motifs as being teased at school. I dont know enough about the case to judge whether he has other underlying psychiatric problems, what these people did to make him do that, how high functioning he is etc, so I cant really comment on what should have happened to him, but I dont think that AS alone can be used as an excuse for committing crimes.



wisteria
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 83

21 Mar 2008, 4:26 pm

I feel that Asperger's has contributed to very poor decision-making on my part, at times, in my life. Whether or not I am exculpated from responsibility for my actions, given that I was operating at (what I consider to be) a deficit, is not a question I can answer though. I tend to think that my responsibility remains fully intact, even if my judgment is not.



paolo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,175
Location: Italy

21 Mar 2008, 4:46 pm

Besides genetic and social determinism, there is another fundamental reason for which I cannot consider moral or good any kind of punishment. For this to be possible (the morality of punishment) the enforcer (the state and its agents) should conform to the values they are supposed to enhance through punishment. Are they moral? Absolutely not: at best they are lifeless bureaucrats (like Tolstoi’s Ivan Illich). At worst they are have belonged one way or other to the mob. How can they be entitled to punish in moral way? I understand that people need security and that dangerous people must be made harmless. But the only understandable meaning of punishment is that of a mother who, unsuccessful in disciplining her children hits them. This should be interpreted as “deterrence”. I want you (child) to know who counts more at home, and if I do not convince you I will show you (hitting you) who counts more.



Belfast
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Age: 51
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,802
Location: Windham County, VT

22 Mar 2008, 1:12 am

paolo wrote:
I understand that people need security and that dangerous people must be made harmless. But the only understandable meaning of punishment is that of a mother who, unsuccessful in disciplining her children hits them. This should be interpreted as “deterrence”. I want you (child) to know who counts more at home, and if I do not convince you I will show you (hitting you) who counts more.

In other words, how does one prevail without becoming* what one is trying to prevail over ?
Often ask these sort of questions (of self, as well as culture in which I live)-but have no answers.
*Therefore, behaving in self-defeating/counterproductive manner that subverts/negates what one is intending to promote/encourage-or vice versa.


_________________
*"I don't know what it is, but I know what it isn't."*


paolo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Age: 91
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,175
Location: Italy

22 Mar 2008, 3:11 am

I agree there are no answers, just perhaps, trying to be compassionate when it is your burden to decide something in matters of "keeping the order". The human world is a tangle of calcified violence and disorder.



slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

18 May 2008, 10:07 pm

Crime neccesitates punishment, and all punishments should ideally fit their crimes. Are you suggesting, Paolo, that the state has no right to punish offenders because it is not a perfect system? Respectfully, I disagree. You are wrong and foolish to demand perfection from any human government. Murder and attempted murder are very serious charges. To simply look the other way while twiddling our thumbs would be much worse than any corrupt system.



Brittany2907
The ultimate storm is eternally on it's
The ultimate storm is eternally on it's

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jun 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,718
Location: New Zealand

19 May 2008, 1:41 pm

Since some with AS have issues with being impulsive, then could this have played a part to his so called "unstable mentality"? Probably so.
As far as should he be blamed for the crime? Most definately. No one else did this except for him and he should take full responsibility.

Regardless of what state of mind he was in at the time of the crime, it was still he that did it and in my opinion, thats all that matters. Unless someone else physically grabbed his hand and made him stab his victims, that is....which that didn't happen.


_________________
I = Vegan!
Animals = Friends.


Thomas1138
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 470

19 May 2008, 5:24 pm

No clue about the Japanese legal system, but in the United States, Asperger's Syndrome doesn't even come close to meeting the definition of mental incapacity. You have to be so mentally impaired that you do not understand what you're doing. AS has many hardships, but we're still 100% responsible for our actions.

Actually, I think the person has a better shot at getting off on post-traumatic stress disorder.



TrueDave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,062

19 May 2008, 6:02 pm

If you look at this coldly you realize that he has killed one individual and traumatically injured another. The purpose of life is to thrive. He is not likely to evr recover from this enough to have a family and replace the human life he took. Even so being a murderer he is unfit to be a father.

Like a weed in a garden he should be uprooted. For the bettrment of the rest of the plants.

What really sucks is wer'e discussing ourselves here. I have wanted to do just what he did.

If we lived in an ideal accepting world would fewer Aspies go nuts?



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

19 May 2008, 8:13 pm

merrymadscientist wrote:
I am a determinist (philosophically speaking) and I think that every choice someone makes is determined by their genetics and previous experience. I dont think that this guy could have done any differently given his circumstances. However, that doesnt mean that I think it is right, nor that he shouldnt be punished.

Same here. I'm Calvinist, so my theology more or less rejects the concept of free will. Really, we as a society still hold people accountable for their actions. It is a metaphysical question whose "fault" a person's actions are, what can be confirmed is that they occurred and that's what we have to go off of.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH