I'd like to point out that the thin=healthy truism is pretty

Page 1 of 3 [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

22 Jul 2008, 3:32 am

unlikely.

From personal experience; I spent four months dancing or working out five to seven hours most days and eating a very careful diet. At the start, I was 5'7 and 176 pounds. At the end, I was 5'7 and 176 pounds, with possibly a 1% difference in body fat percentage. I had a great time, and I pretty much gave up on the idea of changing my body.

I never lost weight till I (accidentally- emotional problems and stress) dropped to a 1200 ish calorie a day diet with at least four hours of exercise. The FDA would have said I needed at least 2700 calories under those circumstances. To loose weight, they'd recommend cutting back by about 500 calories, which was what I'd been eating before.

On a less personal level, the book Ultimate Fitness by Gina Kolata tells me that fully 10% of the population doesn't significantly respond to cardiovascular training.

Furthermore, all the studies we have that shows a connection between weight and health problems have been interpreted from the point of view that the relationship is cause and effect. I'd have to guess that the actual relationship is one of associated causes; I'd guess that morbid obesity is often caused by a high calorie diet and high stress, which also cause pancreatic problems, heart problems, etc.

However, I know for a fact that obesity isn't always caused by a high calorie or badly selected diet, or by inactivity.

Regardless of how hard this is for some people to believe, a simple calories in/calories out model doesn't nearly do the human body justice in it's complexity.

Therefore: current obsession with thinness isn't legitimately based on health.

There is much other evidence, as well, that pervasive marketing changes our perceptions of beauty. This is not just through cleverly marketed miracle claims, but by associating products- and the problems they claim to solve- with unrelated issues. Beauty and specifically thinness, for example, have become dreadfully confused with sexuality, love, and even romance. While they are not unconnected to these things, they are not, in my reality, remotely interchangeable.

Thoughts?

*note; this is from one of my very early posts. . . was glancing through my stuff from when I first got here. It was in the wrong place, to get answers to the question, and I'm curious what people think. Sorry for cross posting.


_________________
And if I die before I learn to speak
will money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep


Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

22 Jul 2008, 5:05 am

Should note that the referenced book examines the state of reputable exercise science research/the lack thereof, not some fad book.



slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

22 Jul 2008, 7:18 am

I agree. Thinnes does not equal health. In fact, thinness can be an indicator of poor health.



MrMark
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jul 2006
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,918
Location: Tallahassee, FL

22 Jul 2008, 8:41 am

I think that thin and thick are neither healthy nor unhealthy.

I think the overweight (obese) and underweight (anorexic) are unhealthy.


_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson


Jainaday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,099
Location: in the They

22 Jul 2008, 8:56 am

MrMark wrote:
I think that thin and thick are neither healthy nor unhealthy.

I think the overweight (obese) and underweight (anorexic) are unhealthy.


you've translated from the colloquial to something approximately* medical. . . but are still essentially agreeing with the status quo. Is there some nuance of meaning that I'm missing here?


* it's possible to be life-threateningly underweight without being anorexic, and obese and overweight are actually two different stage classifications, medically.



MrMark
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jul 2006
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,918
Location: Tallahassee, FL

22 Jul 2008, 9:08 am

Well, the nuance is that IMO thin is not inheirently unhealthy, and size or shape should not be a primary determinant of a healthy/ unhealthy condition.


_________________
"The cordial quality of pear or plum
Rises as gladly in the single tree
As in the whole orchards resonant with bees."
- Emerson


slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

22 Jul 2008, 9:09 am

What MrMark said makes perfect sense to me.



cip
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jul 2008
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 14

22 Jul 2008, 9:12 am

I lift weights, bike, or do yoga at least once or twice a day. I also follow healthy eating habits. I haven't lost weight but am starting to resemble a female bouncer. I'm starting to think that this is just how I'm gonna be and that ain't too bad. My family must have been laborers over the millenia.
:bounce:



slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

22 Jul 2008, 9:20 am

Isn't being life-threateningly thin THE VERY DEFINITION of anorexia?

How many anorexics have double-chins, big bellies, and thunder thighs?



rushfanatic
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 473
Location: Economically Drained Ohio

22 Jul 2008, 9:33 am

I am 5'8" and weigh 135 lbs. I have had 5 children and am 41 yrs.old. I tried the Wii Fit to see how I am doing...I balanced on one foot like a 37 yr. old, stayed pretty steady at first, then swayed as the trial got narrower. My BMI( body mass index) is 21.43..anything below 22 is healthy and normal... I have been as heavy as 207( during pregnancy) and as light as 125 in my early 20's... I work hard in my gardens, use older tools that require strength, work consistently around the house, and I think that contributes greatly to being strong, I am proud of my arms and my back muscles..not too bad for a girl... I think it is much better to be slim and strong, than to be skinny and weak....



Last edited by rushfanatic on 22 Jul 2008, 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

22 Jul 2008, 9:35 am

I agree.



ccflowergirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Female
Posts: 696
Location: tulsa,ok

22 Jul 2008, 10:22 am

Jainaday wrote:
unlikely.

From personal experience; I spent four months dancing or working out five to seven hours most days and eating a very careful diet. At the start, I was 5'7 and 176 pounds. At the end, I was 5'7 and 176 pounds, with possibly a 1% difference in body fat percentage. I had a great time, and I pretty much gave up on the idea of changing my body.

I never lost weight till I (accidentally- emotional problems and stress) dropped to a 1200 ish calorie a day diet with at least four hours of exercise. The FDA would have said I needed at least 2700 calories under those circumstances. To loose weight, they'd recommend cutting back by about 500 calories, which was what I'd been eating before.

On a less personal level, the book Ultimate Fitness by Gina Kolata tells me that fully 10% of the population doesn't significantly respond to cardiovascular training.

Furthermore, all the studies we have that shows a connection between weight and health problems have been interpreted from the point of view that the relationship is cause and effect. I'd have to guess that the actual relationship is one of associated causes; I'd guess that morbid obesity is often caused by a high calorie diet and high stress, which also cause pancreatic problems, heart problems, etc.

However, I know for a fact that obesity isn't always caused by a high calorie or badly selected diet, or by inactivity.

Regardless of how hard this is for some people to believe, a simple calories in/calories out model doesn't nearly do the human body justice in it's complexity.

Therefore: current obsession with thinness isn't legitimately based on health.

There is much other evidence, as well, that pervasive marketing changes our perceptions of beauty. This is not just through cleverly marketed miracle claims, but by associating products- and the problems they claim to solve- with unrelated issues. Beauty and specifically thinness, for example, have become dreadfully confused with sexuality, love, and even romance. While they are not unconnected to these things, they are not, in my reality, remotely interchangeable.

Thoughts?




*note; this is from one of my very early posts. . . was glancing through my stuff from when I first got here. It was in the wrong place, to get answers to the question, and I'm curious what people think. Sorry for cross posting.




Some times especially when your body is so use to a low , low, calorie diet your metabolism get stuck and there’s nothing you can do to lose weight you can't just keep eating less and less until your not eating, you might try going the other way and eating more of things like fruits and steamed vegetables, steamed rice, may be some lean turkey or hard boiled egg or grilled chicken at least once a day, but nothing with fat in it like mayo, avocadoes ,butter or margarine, milk, cheese, chips or sweets and also you might try taking some kelp supplements especially if your thick in the middle it will jump start your metabolism and eating more low fat calories will allow your body to work and burn the calories, at lower calories intake a day, your body shuts down because it thinks your starveling it will start borrowing nutrients from your least important body parts first like your hair, skin teeth and bones. You need to take vitamins more than just a multi that will help but they are only designed for people that also eat a balanced diet.
Having it in your head that you need to look like Barbie to be loved is a hard one, one that I have no right giving advice about, common scent tells me that lots of fat girls have boy friends and your not fat at your height you probably look good. But bad dieting can make you look ugly, unhealthy and shinny hair, and good skin is attractive too
keep dancing! do you zumba?



rushfanatic
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 473
Location: Economically Drained Ohio

22 Jul 2008, 10:28 am

My sister lost 20 lbs. in 2 months by eliminating all breads and beer from her diet... Get rid of the carbs from your menu, and see if you notice any difference...



beef_bourito
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,319
Location: Ontario, Canada

22 Jul 2008, 8:19 pm

rushfanatic wrote:
My sister lost 20 lbs. in 2 months by eliminating all breads and beer from her diet... Get rid of the carbs from your menu, and see if you notice any difference...

i lost 10lbs in three weeks by doing the opposite. i was losing weight to drop into the lightweight category so i was eating a lot of fruit, i was eating very frequently, had whole wheat bread with some meat and cheese for lunch, whatever my mom made for dinner, stopped drinking beer, and i only lost 4lbs in a month, lots of which was probably water. after that i stopped caring, started drinking beer again, and i lost 10lbs in three weeks.

i AM rowing competitively so that's where my exercise comes from (minimum 2hrs of rowing every day) but i just found it funny that i didn't really lose weight until i stopped doing what i was supposed to. i don't quite understand what happened, but it just goes to show that everyone responds to diets differently.



Triangular_Trees
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,799

22 Jul 2008, 9:01 pm

I am told the healthy weight for my body is 30 lbs less than when I felt I was skinny - in fact if I lost 30 pounds from where I was then I'd likely have to go the hospital. I'd have to be in starvation mode to get to 100 lbs



sojournertruth
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 253

22 Jul 2008, 11:07 pm

aiming for a certain 'weight' is pointless for most people. Even if you care about your body image, it's far more worthwhile to aim for a certain percentage of body fat; weight is just a poor substitute for measuring body fat, because it's easier to check.

here's a good list of what to aim for:
http://www.weightlossforall.com/fat-per ... -ideal.htm

the introduction is more targeted towards men, but the tables are given for both males and females.