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LostInEmulation
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25 Jul 2008, 12:07 pm

You all might know the situation. You want a 'normal user' to type just a quick command, something as 'ping www.google.com', 'ifconfig' or 'pppoeconfig', but as soon as the user is in front of a command line, everything suddenly appears to be FAR TOO COMPLEX for him or her. I do not understand that. Maybe because I grew up with DOS and these people never used it. Or maybe because they do not see how easier it is to walk someone through one command than through a 1 km mouse-path. But I don't know why an xterm or a cmd.exe is so... scary for them. Any ideas why? And do you think there is something, that can be done against CLIphobia?


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TheKLF99
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25 Jul 2008, 12:42 pm

'Normal users' probably cower at the site of the command line because it is designed for the logical brain. 'Normal users' can't seem to process what things stand for as quickly as people with AS can - such as IPCONFIG = Internet Protocol Configuration, or PPPOECONFIG = Peer to Peer Over Ethernet Config so are probably scared of it as they can't seem to split initials up as easily. Another example of this is that I've just started a new job this week and the documents I'm dealing with all have three or two letter codes at the beginning of them, I quickly picked up on the fact that these two/three letter codes indicate roughly the county these documents come from.

It's quite hard to see though why people would get confused at typing something weird in to a command line that doesn't make sense, even though we can decode it into English ourselves it can also be very hard for other people to decode.

I think this is also why I much prefer coding in things like PHP and C++ rather than Visual Basic as I see VB too boring and C++ and PHP is more wrote in my manner of thinking.

Just don't ever introduce a "normal user" to the linux shell then ask them to try the following rm -r /*.* (nb if you've never used linux - NEVER try that - it will wipe out every thing on your computer, Linux directory starts at / and everything is branched off from there - no seperate drives, so rm -r /*.* will wipe every directory recursively, including anything that is mounted - e.g. pen drives, memory cards, windows hard drive, etc! - there is one advantage, it is possibly the worlds best virus killer LOL!)



Tim_Tex
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25 Jul 2008, 12:43 pm

When I used AutoCAD in high school, I had to know how to use command lines. It wasn't too difficult.


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Orwell
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25 Jul 2008, 12:43 pm

Because the perception is that the command-line is more for techies or people who actually know what they're doing. Plus, if you do something stupid in the command-line, you can mess up your system. Most people prefer graphical methods.


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Enigmatic_Oddity
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25 Jul 2008, 6:32 pm

I'm comfortable with using command lines when I need to, but I do feel they're no longer welcome for today's computing. It's not that hard for programmers to make in-application menus for parameters, and it still boggles my mind that the best way to get your IP address to set up a network on Windows is through the command prompt.



outskirt
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25 Jul 2008, 6:50 pm

I work in an IT Helpdesk and most users can't figure out the simplest of GUIs and some even seem afraid of their right-click button on their mouse. The more someone becomes familiar with something, the more they can do in it, so I think these people just don't have as much practice. So I don't think it's CLIPhobia as much as it is computer illiteracy, or maybe computer apathy. Also, most people don't want to configure pppoe or ping some website, they just want to push a button, read their email, and turn the bloody thing off.



LostInEmulation
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25 Jul 2008, 6:52 pm

These people normally messed up their systems graphically just fine :wink:

It reminds me of this fun-picture where an alias for the loopback device has to be created and it's one command under various Unices and a huge wall of text in Windows ;)


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outskirt
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25 Jul 2008, 7:00 pm

LostInEmulation wrote:
These people normally messed up their systems graphically just fine :wink:

It reminds me of this fun-picture where an alias for the loopback device has to be created and it's one command under various Unices and a huge wall of text in Windows ;)



haha nice! I guess we know why they call it Windows NT



Kiski
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25 Jul 2008, 7:06 pm

LostInEmulation wrote:
These people normally messed up their systems graphically just fine :wink:

It reminds me of this fun-picture where an alias for the loopback device has to be created and it's one command under various Unices and a huge wall of text in Windows ;)


By any chance, is there and English translation?


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LostInEmulation
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25 Jul 2008, 7:32 pm

Kiski wrote:
LostInEmulation wrote:
These people normally messed up their systems graphically just fine :wink:

It reminds me of this fun-picture where an alias for the loopback device has to be created and it's one command under various Unices and a huge wall of text in Windows ;)


By any chance, is there and English translation?
I can attempt to translate it, but I never used an English Windows so I can't translate it well:
Quote:
Table 5: Commands to set up an alias name for the loopback device (lo0) for the dispatcher
AIX: ifconfig lo0 alias address of the cluster netmask netmask
HP-UX: ifconfig lo0 address of the cluster
Linux: ifconfig lo:1 address of the cluster netmask 0.0.0.0 up
OS/2: ifconfig lo address of the cluster
Solaris: ifconfig lo0:1 address of the cluster 127.0.0.1 up
Windows:
1. Click on Start and then Properties(?)
2. Click on Control Panel(?). then doubleclick on Networks
3. Add the MS Loopback Adapter in case this was not yet done
a. Click in the network Network on Network Adapters
b. Select MS Loopback Device and click Okay
c. Insert the installation CD or floppy when asked to
d. Select Protocols in the window Networks
e. Select TCP/IP Protocol and choose Properties/Options(?)
4. Set the address of the loopback device to the cluster address. Accept the defaultly chosen netmask and don't enter a gateway.
Hint: The MS Loopback Driver might only appear in the list of configurations after you close and re-start the network setup.


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TallyMan
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26 Jul 2008, 4:16 am

A graphical interface is still almost a novelty to me being brought up with command line operating systems such as DOS, VMS and several others. I remember writing Fortran programs using a line editor. That was so slow. It really made my day when a full text editor came out instead of having to select each line of code and telling it what bit of the line to replace. At least the code ran fast I was working with a Cray mainframe in those days. The trouble with Vista is that so much is hidden under realms of graphical interface it can be virtually impossible to find.

I notice MS have even doubled up the search text box with the run box so it keeps coming up with search suggestions while I type in regedit. I did work out how to access the "SendTo" from there but have forgotten again - I want to add a few more of my utility tools to the SendTo folder but be damned if I can find it again.

Vista is such a pain in the ass to work with. I have to enable the view all files so I can get to the data files in AppData path but this clutters the screen up with desktop.ini and other crap everywhere. Why oh why have they hidden people's own data from them? I know the answer - some people are their own worst enemy and can wreck anything they can see. I've even known users open binary data files using document editors such as Word then re-save them and complain to me that there is a fault with their program - I check their data file and find the binary data has been formatted into 80 column rows of text duh! Users!

The worst users are those with a little knowledge - they tinker but don't know what they are doing and wreck things.



LostInEmulation
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26 Jul 2008, 9:12 am

TallyMan wrote:
The worst users are those with a little knowledge - they tinker but don't know what they are doing and wreck things.

Well, yes, but lessons from experience are those, which are remembered best... (I have quite a history of dumb mistakes, but I think I learned from them and at least never made the same dumb mistake twice.) I think that the dumb mistakes are a way to learn and thus leave this stage. :)


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TallyMan
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26 Jul 2008, 9:55 am

LostInEmulation wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
The worst users are those with a little knowledge - they tinker but don't know what they are doing and wreck things.

Well, yes, but lessons from experience are those, which are remembered best... (I have quite a history of dumb mistakes, but I think I learned from them and at least never made the same dumb mistake twice.) I think that the dumb mistakes are a way to learn and thus leave this stage. :)


I definitely agree with you. I'm pretty much self taught with everything and that meant making lots of mistakes along the way, but I do a certain level of risk assessment before doing anything draconian. So for example if I'm going to make a major change to a database or data file then I back it up first. And believe me those backups have come in damn handy sometimes! But there are some people who just wade in and don't care if they screw up and leave other people with hours or days of work to fix their mess.

Rant:
I'm still amazed at the number of hard luck stories about people who lose years of work due to the lack of a backup which would have taken them a few minutes. Whole PhD thesis or novels or whatever lost on a stolen or broken laptop. Or people losing laptops full of unencrypted personal data on them for the sake of spending a few minutes installing some freeware such as True Crypt.
/Rant



gamefreak
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26 Jul 2008, 2:20 pm

Mainly due to the fact that they are afraid that they have to learn all this symtax. Also a Black and White Screen isn't appealing to the eye.



sim
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26 Jul 2008, 7:30 pm

"Look at me, I'm a blank line. I've got a blinking cursor, no instructions, think you can handle me fine?"

In other words - perhaps for them the command prompt is as intimidating as Eminem.



Betzalel
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26 Jul 2008, 9:39 pm

My take on this is that if people have to read they see it as something wrong. particularly if they see a bunch of courier font text. because they equate that with "OMG something is broken!" because the only tiem they normally see text is when the system boots, or when it fails to boot and its totally messed up.

I was once reading usenet in a text only console and I actually had someone come up to me and say "what are all those error messages on your screen" apparently they couldn't actually read the usenet article on the screen and just assumed because there was nothing but text on the screen that something horrible had just happened.